KCRag Forum

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:58 am**

What exactly comes through the port in KC? I didn't think it was big enough to handle a lot of tonnage...?

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:38 pm**

https://portkc.com/transportation/port-of-kansas-city/

Posted: **Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:18 pm**

And that says nothing about the facility proposed east of 485 on the east side of KC.

Posted: **Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:08 am**

atticus23 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:58 am What exactly comes through the port in KC? I didn't think it was big enough to handle a lot of tonnage...?

Low value commodities with minimal urgency. Slag, asphalt, coal, steel, scrap, grains, fertilizers, limited fuels

Posted: **Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:21 pm**

I actually went to the port's website and educated myself. I really had no idea that they were doing that much stuff to get it up and running. Again, thank you all for your insight.

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:41 pm**

In case anyone missed the news. Streetcar Riverfront Extension Cost Jumps 65 percent

Bottom line:

Gerend said project add-ons include extending it closer to the KC Current soccer stadium; building double tracks between the riverfront and streetcar maintenance facility, and larger than anticipated costs laying tracks on the Grand Viaduct.

https://cityscenekc.com/streetcar-river ... 5-percent/

It's unfortunate that we have to resort to private donors to build transit in Kansas City.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:21 pm**

Even with the price increase I’d still say it’s worth it, especially the full double trackage. Building any element at a value scale but only building it for partial functionality is shooting yourself in the foot.

Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:04 pm**

Bar K acquisition/HQ relocation to Arizona has fallen through. HQ remains in KC, unsure what this means for future growth of the company and existing locations.

Posted: **Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:37 pm**

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:04 pm Bar K acquisition/HQ relocation to Arizona has fallen through. HQ remains in KC, unsure what this means for future growth of the company and existing locations.

Good news short term at least

Posted: **Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:02 am**

any idea why they left for AZ in the first place? Just looking to get to a better climate? Looking at Western States/ West Coast as a better fit for their product/brand? Honestly I would think cost to operate in AZ much higher than KC. But who knows.

Posted: **Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:28 am**

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:02 am any idea why they left for AZ in the first place? Just looking to get to a better climate? Looking at Western States/ West Coast as a better fit for their product/brand? Honestly I would think cost to operate in AZ much higher than KC. But who knows.

Probably the person making the acquisition lives in AZ.

Posted: **Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:29 am**

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:02 am any idea why they left for AZ in the first place? Just looking to get to a better climate? Looking at Western States/ West Coast as a better fit for their product/brand? Honestly I would think cost to operate in AZ much higher than KC. But who knows.

The company that was set to buy them is headquartered in Scottsdale

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:40 am**

langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:08 am
atticus23 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:58 am What exactly comes through the port in KC? I didn't think it was big enough to handle a lot of tonnage...?
Low value commodities with minimal urgency. Slag, asphalt, coal, steel, scrap, grains, fertilizers, limited fuels

Nothing that couldn't be transported by rail. What's the economic benefit to KC for the costs of water transportation of these "low-cost commodities"? In order for this to occur, the Corps of Engineers must "channelize" the Missouri River to keep the shipping channel scoured by artificially increasing the speed of the current. This increased speed prevents any recreational use of the river from Omaha to St.Louis. A win (and federal subsidy) for the barge companies. For too long Kansas City turned its back on the Riverfront, it's time for KC to be able to engage with and enjoy the river. Channelization also has serious environmental impacts by preventing natural wetlands, which provide wildlife habitat and ameliorate the severity of high water flooding. We could remove the levees that block views and use of the river. Are a few scrap metal barges worth it?

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 11:03 am**

Pastense wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:40 am
langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:08 am
atticus23 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:58 am What exactly comes through the port in KC? I didn't think it was big enough to handle a lot of tonnage...?
Low value commodities with minimal urgency. Slag, asphalt, coal, steel, scrap, grains, fertilizers, limited fuels
Nothing that couldn't be transported by rail. What's the economic benefit to KC for the costs of water transportation of these "low-cost commodities"? In order for this to occur, the Corps of Engineers must "channelize" the Missouri River to keep the shipping channel scoured by artificially increasing the speed of the current. This increased speed prevents any recreational use of the river from Omaha to St.Louis. A win (and federal subsidy) for the barge companies. For too long Kansas City turned its back on the Riverfront, it's time for KC to be able to engage with and enjoy the river. Channelization also has serious environmental impacts by preventing natural wetlands, which provide wildlife habitat and ameliorate the severity of high water flooding. We could remove the levees that block views and use of the river. Are a few scrap metal barges worth it?

There are plenty of users along the river between Omaha and STL. Giving up a channelized river is a bigger lift than just closing Port KC.

I mean they are wanting to expand the river system to containers at some point even. The hope is that newer designs will allow faster speeds and make the river a competitor to rail and truck for more premium cargos.

River transport is lower carbon compared to rail and highway.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 1:33 pm**

Pastense wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:40 am
langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:08 am
atticus23 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:58 am What exactly comes through the port in KC? I didn't think it was big enough to handle a lot of tonnage...?
Low value commodities with minimal urgency. Slag, asphalt, coal, steel, scrap, grains, fertilizers, limited fuels
Nothing that couldn't be transported by rail. What's the economic benefit to KC for the costs of water transportation of these "low-cost commodities"? In order for this to occur, the Corps of Engineers must "channelize" the Missouri River to keep the shipping channel scoured by artificially increasing the speed of the current. This increased speed prevents any recreational use of the river from Omaha to St.Louis. A win (and federal subsidy) for the barge companies. For too long Kansas City turned its back on the Riverfront, it's time for KC to be able to engage with and enjoy the river. Channelization also has serious environmental impacts by preventing natural wetlands, which provide wildlife habitat and ameliorate the severity of high water flooding. We could remove the levees that block views and use of the river. Are a few scrap metal barges worth it?

If we’re arguing for environmental benefits, but not acknowledging the vast difference in carbon output between rail and barge transport for bulk goods you’ve basically lost all your leverage.

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:49 pm**

not to mention rail is pretty much at capacity, and the roads aren't doing that much better. Moving all that to rail and road would overwhelm the system.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:20 pm**

Just saying that the river could be a greater recreational and aesthetic resource to KC if it were not managed for the benefit of the barge companies. Without facts concerning tonnage now transported I remain unconvinced regarding environmental trade-offs; just as the environmental benefits of dam removal in the West outweighs the loss of incremental water power generation. Wild rivers are better.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:44 pm**

The amount of biodiversity that was killed off by engineering the river was catastrophic. It could all be remediated but that would require caring…so tough sell in this climate

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:34 am**

Anyone interested in the management of the big middle American rivers and what is actually going on should read Holding Back the River by Tyler Kelley.

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:58 am**

chingon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:34 am Anyone interested in the management of the big middle American rivers and what is actually going on should read Holding Back the River by Tyler Kelley.

Also The Control of Nature by John McPhee

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