Suburban vs Urban

[mean]

It's not about resisting change, in my opinion, it's about preventing the necessity of disruptive change by performing accurate self-analyses and making pragmatic and empirical decisions. But I see your point, and it can all go out the window. My point is only that humans have explicit control over who we are as people, and if one's views are "developing and redeveloping" then just maybe one didn't give them proper consideration in the first place.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Nota and AKP have waxed very poetically on the undeniable nature of individual change but what about the equally undeniable nature of social change.  For the last 40+ years our society has been plunging full steam ahead on a very static course and style of suburban development, ignoring several important aspects of life including social interaction, our personal health, proximity and connection to the places we work, shop, and eat, our environment, etc.  People are increasingly starting to notice that there really are many cons with the suburban utopia we have been building all this time.  I am not predicting a massive shift in society but I think there is already a lot of evidence that many people are starting to demand better.  Not only do we have massive urban renewal accross the country but there are plenty of suburbanites of AKP and Nota's generation that are starting to demand more from the suburbs.  Many of those hippy-turned-conservitive suburb dwellers have started to turn up their noses at traditional "status qou" suburban developments and are seeking something better.  Whether anyone will ever come up with a successful model to adress these issues remains to be seen.  However, by the time the young adults on this board may or may not  "evolve" to the point that family becomes their number one priority, our society is going to be less and less likely to force them into a black and white decision along the lines of "I must move my family to a safe, cookie-cutter subdivision in the burbs". 

[bbqboy]

It's not about resisting change, in my opinion, it's about preventing the necessity of disruptive change by performing accurate self-analyses and making pragmatic and empirical decisions. But I see your point, and it can all go out the window. My point is only that humans have explicit control over who we are as people, and if one's views are "developing and redeveloping" then just maybe one didn't give them proper consideration in the first place.

Well, Disruptive Change can  be the most cathartic and satisfying, in the end. Taking risks is necessary to the Human Condition. I might venture that KC as a area  has always seemed to stay the course. Nothing radical, nothing moving the rudder. It's why my sister invited me West to the land of possibilities and what if, rather than the straight and narrow and what is. I'll admit I'm a cynical old bastard (53)who abandoned KC. I love KC, but it always seems to be apologizing for itself, when it should be celebrating itself.

[Cyclops]

Now now, don't throw a tantrum.

I share mean's sentiments.  It is insulting to suggest that everybody else just doesn't understand what relationships are like, and it is shortsighted to suggest that such a difference is a necessary one.  There are certain things that are important to a person that they wouldn't compromise for a mate.  I don't agree with urban sprawl, so I wouldn't marry someone that did. 

My problem wasn't so much regarding your decision to live there but your offloading of the responsibility for that decision.  Just go ahead and own it and stop talking down to those of us that feel differently as if we simply don't understand your supposed plight.

Tantrum? Maybe.  Thin skinned? Probably.  Frustrated? No Doubt.

If you interpreted my comments as "talking down" to you, it wasn't my intentions. Seriously.    Actually I feel like I'm constantly having to defend my way of life here.

I guess all I was really trying to say is that the only thing for sure is change. The current conversation on this board has evolved into that discussion. And after all, change is what this forum is all about.....

[chrizow]

Nota and AKP have waxed very poetically on the undeniable nature of individual change but what about the equally undeniable nature of social change.  For the last 40+ years our society has been plunging full steam ahead on a very static course and style of suburban development, ignoring several important aspects of life including social interaction, our personal health, proximity and connection to the places we work, shop, and eat, our environment, etc.  People are increasingly starting to notice that there really are many cons with the suburban utopia we have been building all this time.  I am not predicting a massive shift in society but I think there is already a lot of evidence that many people are starting to demand better.  Not only do we have massive urban renewal accross the country but there are plenty of suburbanites of AKP and Nota's generation that are starting to demand more from the suburbs.  Many of those hippy-turned-conservitive suburb dwellers have started to turn up their noses at traditional "status qou" suburban developments and are seeking something better.  Whether anyone will ever come up with a successful model to adress these issues remains to be seen.  However, by the time the young adults on this board may or may not  "evolve" to the point that family becomes their number one priority, our society is going to be less and less likely to force them into a black and white decision along the lines of "I must move my family to a safe, cookie-cutter subdivision in the burbs". 

[LenexatoKCMO]

Thanks Chriz.

5-10 years ago, I think Nota and AKP would have been 100% right.  A responsible young family person in KC really didn't have any choice but to locate in the burbs.  The urban neighborhoods were still full of problems and it would be pretty easy to come to the conclusion that the only responsible thing to do is move to the burbs with their nice safe neighborhoods and good schools whether you liked the lifestyle or not.  But our society is changing that fast.  Our urban neighborhoods are getting safer and more family friendly every day.  In KC, the school district may still be an obstacle but at least it is getting to be an isolated obstacle rather than one of many.  And even if the urban core is unworkable for you, a young family person is starting to have other responsible choices available to them besides status quo suburban life, such as new urbanist and experimental developments and/or revived historic "streetcar line" suburbs.  The days where the only responsible choice for a young couple wanting to have kids is to move to a cul-de-sac in Olathe are numbered. 

Another thing being ignored by our suburubanite friends on the board is that not everyone evolves in the same way.  For a long time KC has been a family centered kind of place.  In a very midwestern way, it has been taken for granted around this town that the ultimate goal of living is a steady job, marriage, and two or three kids.  There are a lot of people in this world who aren't wired like that - maybe you are gay, maybe you don't like kids, maybe you would rather focus on your career or curing cancer, maybe you are a person who doesn't ever want to "grow-up", maybe you are a person for whom your spouse or partner is family enough - for a long time if you fell into any of these categories, odds are you got the hell out of KC because there really was no place for you and this city was really not designed for you - or you stayed here and were miserable in the burbs.  Maybe now that our urban core is becoming vibrant again, more and more of those people will decide to stay or even come back. 

[DanCa]

Speaking of urban an social interaction, I just realized something the other day.  I was reading an article in our Stapleton newspaper about the development and it mentioned that the mailboxes were specifically placed in the middle of each block to encourage social interaction.  Now my first thoughts about the community mailbox were A. This is a pain in the butt for me to walk half a block every day to get the mail and B. they did this because the postal carriers are lazy and don't want to go up to each house anymore. The boxes are also turned toward the sidewalk so you can't just drive up and get your mail from the car.  Anyway, after reading the article I realized how many good conversations I've had with neighbors on my trips to the mailbox - plus people post signs on the mailbox for things like a lost cat, block party, something for sale, etc., so it really does work. 

[Cyclops]

Thanks Chriz.

Another thing being ignored by our suburubanite friends on the board is that not everyone evolves in the same way.  For a long time KC has been a family centered kind of place.  In a very midwestern way, it has been taken for granted around this town that the ultimate goal of living is a steady job, marriage, and two or three kids.  There are a lot of people in this world who aren't wired like that - maybe you are gay, maybe you don't like kids, maybe you would rather focus on your career or curing cancer, maybe you are a person who doesn't ever want to "grow-up", maybe you are a person for whom your spouse or partner is family enough - for a long time if you fell into any of these categories, odds are you got the hell out of KC because there really was no place for you and this city was really not designed for you - or you stayed here and were miserable in the burbs.  Maybe now that our urban core is becoming vibrant again, more and more of those people will decide to stay or even come back. 

Thanks for calling us friends. 

I completely support that thought. I have plenty of friends and contemporaries that are living exactly as you described, except none of them are currently curing cancer. But I do know some who fight it. Point is not all of us 'suthurnurs' are ignoring these lifestyles at all. In fact we interact quite well with the city folk.  I just don't see why it has to be an us vs. them thing. That's where I get frustrated. And misunderstood.

I think that as KC and the surrounding burbs evolve, it will retain it's reputation as a great place to live for families, singles and whoever because it's affordable and for the most part people here are nice to be around. There are great options for whatever lifestyle you choose.

[shinatoo]

Were all friends, we all share a love for the city, but even lovers fight.

[mean]

I just don't see why it has to be an us vs. them thing.

I don't really think of it that way, but I think part of the reason some of your urban friends are quick to become defensive is that we hear this stuff all the time. "Oh, you'll grow out of it," people say, or some variation on that theme. After a while it can feel like an attack on one's lifestyle choice, as though what we're doing is completely infeasible for the long term, and we're just too naive to see it; when, of course, in reality many millions of people live in cities all their lives, raise their children in them, and so on.

[Cyclops]

Point well taken. Thus the reactions to my post the other day. However I intended it.

I have a young man who works for me who lives near the Plaza. His relationship issues are always fun discussion around the office. The old married farts and the young guy. He has as much fun rubbing his nightlife in our faces as we do our alleged stability. It's all good fun. And I would never tell him where he should live.

We also hire from a very large pool of free lancers who live all over midtown, westport, downtown and even the burbs. The only time I ever hear any of the us vs them stuff is when the subject of drivers come up. "You damn Kansans don't know how to use a turn signal", etc. Or the usual Kansas reply: "I parked my car in a pot hole yuk yuk yuk..."  Still I don't sense any underlying BS. Most of these people are very supportive of each other. If anything I hear a lot of them talking about going out after work and having dinner and a few drinks and they're always talking about what's available downtown. Spreading the word between themselves. I think some of them would love to live and raise families in the city like you described. And I really would say power to em.

[GRID]

5-10 years ago, I think Nota and AKP would have been 100% right.  A responsible young family person in KC really didn't have any choice but to locate in the burbs.  The urban neighborhoods were still full of problems and it would be pretty easy to come to the conclusion that the only responsible thing to do is move to the burbs with their nice safe neighborhoods and good schools whether you liked the lifestyle or not.

We finally agree on something.  This is exactly right.  Thing are much better now, we still have a long way to go, but it's much better than it was.

[GRID]

I always told myself, I would NEVER live in the suburbs and NEVER drive a minivan.

Well, at least I don't drive a minivan

[staubio]

I always told myself, I would NEVER live in the suburbs and NEVER drive a minivan.

Well, at least I don't drive a minivan

You shoulda went the other way around.  Mini-vans aren't THAT bad.

[GRID]

LOL, never thought about it like that!

[aknowledgeableperson]

Much as the urban supporters took offense when the suburbanites waxed the joys of the suburban way of life, us suburbanites take offense when the urbanites attack the suburban life and waxed the joys of the urban life.
I am glad that an urban life is coming back to KC.  It is an attraction that this area lacked for many years.  It may not be, and probably will never be, like Chicago, New York, and other urban areas but there will be some semblance.  Urban life is not for nor my wife.  Our suburban way of life may prevent an urban life that is desired because of a lack of density but one attraction of the KC area is its varied housing stock in close proximity to the city center.
Instead of attacking KS on how it hurts KCMO find out what KCMO lacks and make improvements.  It doesn't have to be like KS but KCMO must improve on its strengths and correct and minimize its weaknesses.

[warwickland]

5-10 years ago, i doubt i would have moved to kc to get a second degree, i probably would have moved to the pac northwest. 5-10 years ago, i dont even think they had my degree at umkc.

theres way too much potential and opportunity to leave kc now. it's time for kc to GET IT ON.


i think there is a huge difference between 1960s style idealism, and the sort that i subscribe to. mine doesnt involve tuning in and dropping out, rather im dropping in and preparing to engage myself. eff the hippies, they got us into this mess. j/k.