What restaurants do you want in the P&L District?

[macnw]

So does that mean people won't over analyze what gets plopped downtown? I sure hope so!!!!!! I personally think Hooter's downtown  would be great. Saw one in downtown DC last year, very discreet. Bet the convention peeps love it.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The dispute over local versus chains is very interesting.  But one has to take into account the patrons of the district.  Who will be most important to its success - locals or tourists?
If it is full of chains then why would a local make a trip to DT to go to Chili's, etc. when one could travel half the distance and park for free just steps from the door.  The same argument could be used for locals whether they are BBQ, steakhouse, chicken, Mexican, Chinese, or whatever.
Whatever restaurants are in there they better have some deep pockets to carry them over the slow times, especially after the newness wears off.  Rent will not be cheap and success is not guaranteed given all of the other trendy locations already in existence and on the drawing tables.

[KCPowercat]

Locals will be more important I think......my reasoning being locals using it during the day for lunches as well as evenings.

The argument of "why would people travel further for the same" can be answered by the line outside plaza restaurants....it's not just about the restaurant itself, it's an overall experience.  Why do people sometimes rent hotel rooms in their own city?  They have beds in their homes we all assume.

Success anywhere is never guaranteed.....doesn't stop the 100th same big box strip mall from rising from the ground.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It is interesting that you used "overall experience" and "plaza restaurants".  We go to three restaurants (chains and a local) on the Plaza and that is because the locations are the only ones in KC.
My thinking is that the P&L D needs restaurants that have very limited or no other presence in KC so that it is unique for the "locals", much like the Plaza.  The district will be doomed, or deemed a failure, if most of the restaurants are Chili's, Longhorn, and Macaroni Grill.

[KCPowercat]

some will deem it a failure no matter what....it's the KC way.

I think a mix but you are right, some good unique restaurants are needed...if it's full of only Chili's for example, it would fail.

BTW, my point has no less validity because of one (your) dining patterns....

[aknowledgeableperson]

I was not downgrading your "validity" because of my dining patterns.  I thought I was supporting it.

[KCPowercat]

I think people go to the plaza even to eat at places they have closer to home (Pizza Uno, Cheesecake, etc)

[DaveKCMO]

i have no problem at all if the entire P+L district becomes populated with chains... i'm more interested in the halo effect which will provide plenty of opportunities for locals and entrepreneurs. who cares about a chili's at 14th and main if there are six blocks of local fare in every direction?

[advocrat]

I haven't read every post on this thread, and don't know who or how many posters have suggested Gates BBQ.  Chain versus local, or local chain or not, Gates is among the best brands associated with  Kansas City. Gates has character, and locals and visitors alike always react to the raucous-ruckus of "Hi, can I help yoooouuuu!" The BBQ is decent (even though I have my own favorite. Since their closest restaurants are on Brooklyn and Linwood, a dowtown loop location is justifiable.  Considering the entertainment mix + the Arena, Gates would do well for itself and Kansas City. Did I mention the drawing power of the smell of BBQ in the air? (like Folgers coffee and it's appealling aroma.)

[kcdcchef]

it used to have a poll. it died for some reason.

[MidtownCat]

This district has a limited chance of long term success if the majority is comprised of chain restaurant already in 20 other locations around the metro.

Out of town tourists aren't going to seek out a restaurant they have back at home in their suburban shopping center.

After seeing Applebee's pack up from their downtown location, I have suspicions about a place like Chili's or Montana Mike's actually being able to draw well with the locals as well.  I could be wrong, but I really don't see these places fitting with the downtown living demographic or being able to appeal to business lunch.

The reason the Plaza is a valid case study, is that at one point it too was a manufactured shopping and entertainment district.  The reason Nichol's Plaza remains today as viable as it was 90 years ago, is because of its reputation as world class destination for our city stemming from the unique and distinctive experience it offers.  We've definitely seen changes over the years, but it has always strived to resist becoming diluted with normality.  

[eliphar17]

I haven't read every post on this thread, and don't know who or how many posters have suggested Gates BBQ.  Chain versus local, or local chain or not, Gates is among the best brands associated with  Kansas City. Gates has character, and locals and visitors alike always react to the raucous-ruckus of "Hi, can I help yoooouuuu!" The BBQ is decent (even though I have my own favorite. Since their closest restaurants are on Brooklyn and Linwood, a dowtown loop location is justifiable.  Considering the entertainment mix + the Arena, Gates would do well for itself and Kansas City. Did I mention the drawing power of the smell of BBQ in the air? (like Folgers coffee and it's appealling aroma.)

Cordish talked to Gates about a P&L location, and Gates said the rent was too high, especially given how many metro locations they have already.

[chrizow]

how high are the rents?  if Gates, a local institution, can't make the numbers work, how can we expect any local tenants (other than the bristol, apparently)? 

i think it would be worth it to charge slightly lower rents to local tenants to give the district a more local flavor, but of course cordish is wanting to maximize profit.  ah, the pitfalls of corporate ownership/management of prime real estate!

[advocrat]

Cordish talked to Gates about a P&L location, and Gates said the rent was too high, especially given how many metro locations they have already.

Well that's discouraging. I'd think that Gates would do so much business there that profits would justify the rent. Lunch hour business would have to be spectacular. And what a venue to showcase Gates BBQ..

[macnw]

I think people(both local and tourists) will choose downtown for all the other things to do after lunch/dinner. Hit the movies in a refurbished theater, concert at the Music Hall, some event at the Sprint Center, the Rep theater. These entertainment venues will draw folks from the burbs and tourists alike. Hopefully, the environment created downtown will be unique and not a replication of VW.

[Brodees]

how high are the rents?  if Gates, a local institution, can't make the numbers work, how can we expect any local tenants (other than the bristol, apparently)? 

i think it would be worth it to charge slightly lower rents to local tenants to give the district a more local flavor, but of course cordish is wanting to maximize profit.  ah, the pitfalls of corporate ownership/management of prime real estate!

I distinctly recall reading an article regarding rent for the P&L district and how Cordish wanted to lure Ollie Gates so badly that he dropped the rent to something like $20-$25 per square foot.  He still didn't bite, though. 

...Did a quick Google and found it right away.  Though old, it's a great article overall regarding prospective tenants: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:rI ... =clnk&cd=1

Those discussions have included some of Kansas City’s better-known restaurant operators.

“They did approach us and they were very concerned that we at least try to reach a happy medium with them to be part of the downtown entertainment district,â€

[chrizow]

wow, that is very informative.  thanks.  too bad the P+L is out of most locals' league!  hopefully they'll still look for downtown locations.  i'd love to see a Gates or Bryants or something somewhere in the vicinity.

[GRID]

This district has a limited chance of long term success if the majority is comprised of chain restaurant already in 20 other locations around the metro.

Out of town tourists aren't going to seek out a restaurant they have back at home in their suburban shopping center.

After seeing Applebee's pack up from their downtown location, I have suspicions about a place like Chili's or Montana Mike's actually being able to draw well with the locals as well.  I could be wrong, but I really don't see these places fitting with the downtown living demographic or being able to appeal to business lunch.

The reason the Plaza is a valid case study, is that at one point it too was a manufactured shopping and entertainment district.  The reason Nichol's Plaza remains today as viable as it was 90 years ago, is because of its reputation as world class destination for our city stemming from the unique and distinctive experience it offers.  We've definitely seen changes over the years, but it has always strived to resist becoming diluted with normality.  

There was nothing else downtown.  Applebee's was there when downtown had hit bottom when it comes to a "24 hour" city.  Most sit down restaurants can not make it on the 11-2 lunch period alone.

With everything else that is going in downtown from the PAC to the Sprint Center, places like applebee's will do much better.

I'm telling you...it would be great to get an ESPN Zone, or any other prized tenant like that, but downtown needs "normal" stuff by about a 3:1 ratio over the fancy stuff if it's going to survive.

People WILL drive downtown to eat at the same places that can be found in the suburbs for the atmosphere of being in an urban, exciting and different place.  By far and large, tourists and travelers and suburbanites will choose Chillies over ESPN when dining out.  Once you go to an ESPN Z, you have "been there, done that" and tend to avoid their $14 cheeseburgers far more often.  Actually "most" people prefer the chains.  Sorry, but people like to eat a places that are somewhat familiar to them vs entering a place they have no idea about.  What I'm saying is that 9 times out of 10, when a family walks out of the arena after an event or when a family is downtown just enjoying the city, they are going to "look for" places like Applebee's.  Places like ESPN Zone just help them find Applebee's.

We need it all.  Everything! And everything needs the rest of everthing else, they all feed off one another. .

Most of all, we need to appeal to the masses if you want a vibrant downtown and Chillies and Applebee's do that.  You can always go to 12 Balt or the Peanut, they will always be there and will be joined by others once we get downtown where is should be.

There is a reason some of you are in development and or realestate .

[mister816]

i said before and i'll say it again, we need Bubba Gump Shrimp co.  I dont even like sea food and this is one of my favorate spots.

http://www.bubbagump.com/

[kcdcchef]

i said before and i'll say it again, we need Bubba Gump Shrimp co.  I dont even like sea food and this is one of my favorate spots.

http://www.bubbagump.com/

i love seafood, but not the bubba gump shrimp co, decent food, not great. but i feel it would be a great addition to the p&l, good tourist draw.