Downtown Mission/ The Gateway

[longviewmo]

They did just renovate the interior of the Wal Mart, but I agree, the site itself could probably use a touch-up. And of course, the taxpayers will foot the bill.

I don't think the Spanish has any bearing on repelling or attracting white Midwest shoppers. And its not a bad part of town by any stretch of the imagination.

That Walmart was recently renovated? Wow...I was just in there last week and it felt shabby in there.

I know that when I travel in the Midwest and I see two-language signs in a store, I feel like I need to be more aware of my surroundings and step up my mental security level. It is totally an indicator for me that I am in a neighborhood with economic problems. it may not set off your warning lights, but I guarantee it does for the typical person. Too many RP residents choose to go to other Walmarts than this one because it simply scares them. Walmart doesn't care, but RP sure as hell should care.

Then you should probably avoid any home improvement store.

[LenexatoKCMO]

They did just renovate the interior of the Wal Mart, but I agree, the site itself could probably use a touch-up. And of course, the taxpayers will foot the bill.

I don't think the Spanish has any bearing on repelling or attracting white Midwest shoppers. And its not a bad part of town by any stretch of the imagination.

That Walmart was recently renovated? Wow...I was just in there last week and it felt shabby in there.

I know that when I travel in the Midwest and I see two-language signs in a store, I feel like I need to be more aware of my surroundings and step up my mental security level. It is totally an indicator for me that I am in a neighborhood with economic problems. it may not set off your warning lights, but I guarantee it does for the typical person. Too many RP residents choose to go to other Walmarts than this one because it simply scares them. Walmart doesn't care, but RP sure as hell should care.

What part of the second language do you find frightening? Fear that you might start involuntarily trilling your Rs?
Or is it perhaps really a fear that you may encounter brown people and have to interact with them?

[AlbertHammond]

What part of the second language do you find frightening? Fear that you might start involuntarily trilling your Rs?
Or is it perhaps really a fear that you may encounter brown people and have to interact with them?

Clearly you cannot see past your perfect ability to live in harmony with all cultures, colors, economic classes and religions.

This has nothing to do with me...it has to do with normal middle to upper class economy-driving people who choose to spend their money somewhere. They will choose a place that is comfortable and secure. They choose a place with people like themselves. They see shabby cars in the parking lot, darker skin, spanish spoken in the store and spanish signs around. They prefer to go elsewhere.

You are more awesome than they are and so are your dollars, so we should ignore their dollars to encourage racial/social/economic harmony.

[LenexatoKCMO]

What part of the second language do you find frightening? Fear that you might start involuntarily trilling your Rs?
Or is it perhaps really a fear that you may encounter brown people and have to interact with them?

Clearly you cannot see past your perfect ability to live in harmony with all cultures, colors, economic classes and religions.

This has nothing to do with me...it has to do with normal middle to upper class economy-driving people who choose to spend their money somewhere. They will choose a place that is comfortable and secure. They choose a place with people like themselves. They see shabby cars in the parking lot, darker skin, spanish spoken in the store and spanish signs around. They prefer to go elsewhere.

You are more awesome than they are and so are your dollars, so we should ignore their dollars to encourage racial/social/economic harmony.

Your original post used the words "I" and "me" well over a dozen times to describe this reaction, yet when called out on your out right racisim you revert to this being about other "normal" people. Perhaps you should start asking yourself why you need to take shelter in the anonymity of the masses rather than own up to them when the light is shined on it.
If you are a bigot, own up to it. Don't try and frame some sort of bullshit window dressing around it.

[KCMax]

I really doubt RP and Mission folks aren't going to Wal Mart because of Spanish signs. I've been to that Wal Mart, and the business seems brisk to me, with plenty of white faces.

Besides, they aren't moving it that far - I'm guessing a new Wal Mart in Mission less than half a mile will probably cater to the Spanish-speaking population as well.

[loftguy]

What part of the second language do you find frightening? Fear that you might start involuntarily trilling your Rs?
Or is it perhaps really a fear that you may encounter brown people and have to interact with them?

Clearly you cannot see past your perfect ability to live in harmony with all cultures, colors, economic classes and religions.

This has nothing to do with me...it has to do with normal middle to upper class economy-driving people who choose to spend their money somewhere. They will choose a place that is comfortable and secure. They choose a place with people like themselves. They see shabby cars in the parking lot, darker skin, spanish spoken in the store and spanish signs around. They prefer to go elsewhere.

You are more awesome than they are and so are your dollars, so we should ignore their dollars to encourage racial/social/economic harmony.

You scare me, and it has everything to do with you and your perception of the world around you.

[NDTeve]

have heard it referred to as "Wal Martinez"...don't think that stopped anyone from going there. Their parking lot is miserable but not as bad as Target at Ward Parkway. Nothing to do with race. Just really crowded and anxiety-inducing.

[KCMax]

I know more than a few white-bread suburbanites (ours included) that prefer that RP Price Chopper because they offer a lot of products others don't carry because they are catering to Hispanic families.

[AlbertHammond]

Your original post used the words "I" and "me" well over a dozen times to describe this reaction, yet when called out on your out right racisim you revert to this being about other "normal" people. Perhaps you should start asking yourself why you need to take shelter in the anonymity of the masses rather than own up to them when the light is shined on it.
If you are a bigot, own up to it. Don't try and frame some sort of bullshit window dressing around it.

Maybe you are right. Then again, I might be Hispanic. why are my remarks racist? In the Midwest, two-language signage is a symbol of a neighborhood in decline.

My own person "racism" has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with identifying signals that effect the psychology of the average Midwesterner. If a new Mission Walmart screams to everyone that they are catering to a demographic/ethnicity (two-language signage) that is typically lower income, that will repel some people that are not in that demographic. I am not saying that all whites will stay away, but some will find other places to shop. It also places an assumed stigma that the neighborhood must be all Hispanic, which effects potential homebuyers and lowers resale value, which makes the neighborhood cheaper, which turns them more into rentals, which brings lower income or less stable families, which are often Hispanic. Well....looks like RP will become Hispanic after all.

Reminds me of a famous quote from a GM division head in the 1950s: "You can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you cannot sell an old man's car to a young man."

Same can be said of retail or house buyers. "You can't sell a house in a declining area to an up-and-comer, but you can sell a house in an up-and-comer area to just about anyone.

Anyone that says they do not pay attention to their personal security a bit more at the RP Walmart than the Walmart at 163rd & Metcalf is either lying or is used to neighborhoods a lot more dangerous.

[grovester]

You're right when I'm at a walmart at 163rd and metcalf I don't feel anything. Matter of fact I'm completely numb, almost anesthetiized. Weird.

[chaglang]

In the Midwest, two-language signage is a symbol of a neighborhood in decline.

Except the largest hispanic neighborhood in KCMO, where some homes top the $300k range and it's jamfrigginpacked with white people on weekends.

To +1 LenexatoKCMO, if your counterargument is to say that you represent "normal" people, you need a better rebuttal... and to rethink your working definition of "normal".

[aknowledgeableperson]

In the Midwest, two-language signage is a symbol of a neighborhood in decline.

Interesting conclusion or assumption or whatever you want to call it. My response is NAH.

There are so many bi-lingual signs throughout the retail marketplace, even with just about every phone answering system one might use (remember 1 for English and so on). More likely their are people out there who don't like it and what it represents but that is another story.

[LenexatoKCMO]

My own person "racism" has nothing to do with race.

Your own personal racism seems to be of the most naked, base, and indefensible variety. You freely admit that you are frightened of this place merely by the presence of "Hispanics" and their language. Your position would at least be more veiled if you had cited a history of violence at that location, maybe outward signs of gang or drug activity, at least some threatening looking urban styled youth intimidating the customers. But no, you are willing to completely write the place off as a den of trouble merely because of the color and language of a portion of the clientele.

It is shocking the lengths of intellectual dishonesty a large slice of America is now willing to stoop to in order rationalize an increasingly disgusting level of bigotry and unjustified FUD.

[aknowledgeableperson]

As far as I know of when "Hispanics" spend their money that money is green just like mine. And for most retailers, especially the big ones, wherever they are that is all that matters to them.

As for Walmarts in general, there is some "white trash" or "trailer park trash" that scares me more than an Hispanic family when I am in the store.

[pash]

.

[aknowledgeableperson]

The only thing these far-flung suburbs have going for them is demographic exclusivity.

What? Out here in Raymore that is not the case. And I am sure that applies to Belton as well. We might have more diversity out here than in some neighborhoods in KCMO.

[pash]

.

[NDTeve]

The only thing these far-flung suburbs have going for them is demographic exclusivity.

What? Out here in Raymore that is not the case. And I am sure that applies to Belton as well. We might have more diversity out here than in some neighborhoods in KCMO.

The melting pot that is Raymore.

[AlbertHammond]

The only thing these far-flung suburbs have going for them is demographic exclusivity. You might not think that's much of a plus, but AlbertHammond is basically right: that's why the people who live there live there. So when fresh cilantro starts selling a bit too well at the local supermarket, well, there goes the neighborhood.

Surely this isn't surprising. I mean, this is the mindset that's driven suburban development for going on seven decades.

I think Pash is the only one starting to understand where I am headed here (Clearly, my communication skills are lacking). I am not suggesting that there is some over-riding level of racism or bigotry at work here. I am just suggesting that most people prefer to shop and live where they are most comfortable. Comfort for most is about surrounding themselves with folks at similar economic and cultural (and language) levels. I think most typical suburbanites are fine with a black, Asian or Hispanic family moving in next door as long as they have similar values.

This discussion is about preserving neighborhood value and keeping the place desirable for all segments of the homebuying marketplace. If visitors to this Walmart get the sense that it is angled to the non-english speaking community, it must be in a neighborhood that is lower income or headed that way. When those same shoppers start looking for a home to buy, they are likely to cross that neighborhood off their list of probable purchase areas. Fewer potential buyers = lower resale value. Plain and simple.

A great majority of the commenters here on the rag like to live on the fringe or lead the way with gentrifying neighborhoods. That is awesome. If those same commenters cannot do a better job of understanding the greater mass of people, they will never effect great change to steer the herd to their way of thinking.

You freely admit that you are frightened of this place merely by the presence of "Hispanics" and their language.

Hmm….not exactly. I am only stating that the use of two-language signage is a symbol of a neighborhood in decline with residents of low income and no education. Two-language signage (in the Midwest) are designed for non-english speakers, not for Hispanics that speak English. Hispanics that do not speak English are typically not middle-income people. Areas that are low-income also tend to have higher crime rates. Areas with higher crimes rates make me pay better attention to my personal safety. I am not alone in this behavior.

As far as I know of when "Hispanics" spend their money that money is green just like mine. And for most retailers, especially the big ones, wherever they are that is all that matters to them.

True. But if the dynamics of the store discourage all other users, they lose potential buyers.

As for Walmarts in general, there is some "white trash" or "trailer park trash" that scares me more than an Hispanic family when I am in the store.

I agree. I am not suggesting that Hispanics are dangerous or scary. Just that lower income areas tend to be higher crime areas and there are indicators that the average person can identify that they are in a lower income/impoverished area. Two-language signage is just one of those indicators in the Midwest.

Except the largest hispanic neighborhood in KCMO, where some homes top the $300k range and it's jamfrigginpacked with white people on weekends.

The West side is one of those places that a small population of gentrifiers has taken over and is in transition. Housing for the poor in this area is dwindling and it is becoming a place that has a Hispanic vibe, but the low-income Hispanics have mostly been priced out of. Normal suburban Midwesterners would not have felt uber safe in this neighborhood in the 1980s at the bottom of its decline.

You can see this behavior all over the place. Like it or not, it is reality. There are parts of the Shawnee Mission School District that are struggling to hold their resale value. If you look at a school population map, the same exact resale problem areas are the areas with higher ESL rates. Most of these Spanish speaking families live in apartments, not in the S.F. houses, but the presence of them in that school drives down the resale prices of all houses in that school boundary. It builds and builds until the area has declined so far it cannot come back. And let’s face it, these post WWII neighborhoods have few redeeming features to make them worthy of resuscitating once they crash, unlike pre-WWII neighborhoods in KCMO (which still hasn’t happened in-mass).

If RP wants to save itself, it needs to find ways to attract typical homebuyers by seeming like an up-and-comer neighborhood. It is not headed that direction right now. I prefer the homes and neighborhoods of RP over old Shawnee, Merriam or much of older OP and I think if they lose the stigma of having “the mexican walmart” they will increase their chance of becoming an up-and-comer neighborhood.

[flyingember]

A great majority of the commenters here on the rag like to live on the fringe or lead the way with gentrifying neighborhoods. That is awesome. If those same commenters cannot do a better job of understanding the greater mass of people, they will never effect great change to steer the herd to their way of thinking.

I'd take suburban sprawl with social variety over urban development targeted only to elitist rich white folks any day