Questions about Bistate II

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:21 pm

I read that JoCo is projected to provide ~43% of all the taxes going into Bistate II over the next 15 years.

I also heard that they have no representaion on the BiState board.

I even heard that none of the projects will occur in JoCo, and there was no serious consideration given to any.

Question: why on EARTH would Jackson County not be a little smarter image-wise?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:31 pm

Because JoCo sucks and shouldn't be allowed any type of development

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:37 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:I read that JoCo is projected to provide ~43% of all the taxes going into Bistate II over the next 15 years.

I also heard that they have no representaion on the BiState board.

I even heard that none of the projects will occur in JoCo, and there was no serious consideration given to any.

Question: why on EARTH would Jackson County not be a little smarter image-wise?

If you are "hearing" things I would suggest you start initiating something like going to the library, reading a variety of local news sources, etc. to fufill your part in an American democracy.

The one part that I know for sure is that the arts money will contribute to arts programs throughout the metro-- just as Arrowhead/Kauffman renovations and a new PAC will benefit Johnson County as well in quality of life and tourism.

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:41 pm

trailerkid wrote:[The one part that I know for sure is that the arts money will contribute to arts programs throughout the metro-- just as Arrowhead/Kauffman renovations and a new PAC will benefit Johnson County as well in quality of life and tourism.

Exactly my point: if stuff is built in JoCo, that'll in turn benefit Jackson COunty in "quality of life and tourism" also.

Right?

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:42 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
trailerkid wrote:[The one part that I know for sure is that the arts money will contribute to arts programs throughout the metro-- just as Arrowhead/Kauffman renovations and a new PAC will benefit Johnson County as well in quality of life and tourism.
Exactly my point: if stuff is built in JoCo, that'll in turn benefit Jackson COunty in "quality of life and tourism" also.

Right?

Yes...unfortunately Jo Co has nothing and nowhere suitable to build anything other than a soccer stadium.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:46 pm

which it will NEVER get a Wizards Stadium... It sucks too much... (JoCo does)

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:47 pm

trailerkid wrote: Yes...unfortunately Jo Co has nothing and nowhere suitable to build anything other than a soccer stadium.

Maybe if Bistate I had gone to JoCo, it would have something??

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:51 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
trailerkid wrote: Yes...unfortunately Jo Co has nothing and nowhere suitable to build anything other than a soccer stadium.
Maybe if Bistate I had gone to JoCo, it would have something??

What do you want? You seriously would put the PAC or a new baseball stadium along the 435?

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:56 pm

No. Actually, I want the park next to Union Station, and the PAC downtown as well.

the point I am making tho, is quite obvious: JoCo's get ripped for not "supporting" the downtown area. (One poster here even told me he doesn't want my presence down there.)

Well sh!t, when we're asked to provide about half the financing but get NO say, how are we supposed to feel?

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:16 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:No. Actually, I want the park next to Union Station, and the PAC downtown as well.

the point I am making tho, is quite obvious: JoCo's get ripped for not "supporting" the downtown area. (One poster here even told me he doesn't want my presence down there.)

Well sh!t, when we're asked to provide about half the financing but get NO say, how are we supposed to feel?

BS1 gave Jo Co leaders a say, I am not exactly sure what is going with BS2, but I expect it to fail because, as you mentioned, Jack Co officials have really dropped the ball with getting people behind this. Also remember that it isn't just Jo Co that would get screwed...Wy Co, Clay, and Platte Counties are also in the same boat without providing as much financing.

Also, remember that just because it comes from Jo Co sales tax-- don't make yourself the martyrs. Many people from Lawrence spend A LOT of money in Jo Co malls and stores as do many in Jackson County, Wy Co, Platte and Clay counties. Overall, Johnson County is a regional retail draw that brings in plenty of money from across the state line and surrounding cities and towns.

When I wrote that I didn't think you should move downtown, I said it because you seem to have a pretty defeatist attitude towards KCMO and urban areas in general. You may be playing that up for the board-- I don't know. Downtown needs a variety of people, opinions, and incomes and I don't support limiting anyone from moving downtown. I just don't see the point in moving into an urban environment if you hate buses, urban development, or people with opinions that are different than yours.

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:33 pm

Because JoCo sucks and shouldn't be allowed any type of development

Devin, what happened? Your evil twin got out again! You need to put him back in his box!

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:44 pm

lolol, I like KS, but I just really dislike JoCo because of what they did to downtown...

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:12 pm

Some facts...

Joco WILL have represenation on the Bistate Commission. The current commision overseing Union Station has OP Mayor Ed Eilert and Leawood Mayor Peggy Dunn. This is the group that approves spending the bistate money.

The Sports Complex Authority will be expanded to include voting members from every county that approves the tax.

Joco WILL get money back for the arts and cultural projects. They have never asked for a physical structure. It was Missouri leaders that first suggested the soccer stadium, but Kansas leaders weren't very interested.

This is a sales tax. Much of money Joco pays actually comes from Missourians shopping in Joco.

The 43% is based on the tax collections for Bistate I. With new retail in Eastern Jack and the Northland, that number will likely be lower.

eliphar17 · Post by **eliphar17** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:11 am

You know what's funny, when people make silly comments like "Many people from Lawrence spend A LOT of money in Jo Co malls and stores" and "Much of money Joco pays actually comes from Missourians shopping in Joco"... now I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong, but...

Allow me to pose an interesting and thought-provoking question to you: Where do you think JoCo residents shop???

Seriously, use some common sense here. Surely you don't really think that a majority of the sales tax receipts in a county of 500,000 people are paid by non-residents? The money spent by outsiders is surely far outweighed by money spent by the residents of one of the 10 richest counties in the nation (I think that's correct).

Now I hope a certain someone (Devin) on this board doesn't assume by my comments that I am anti-everything-but-JoCo, because that would be a gross error. As I have said numerous times before, I am very excited about what's happening downtown. I just want to make sure we don't get carried away with ourselves in explaining away the amount of support that JoCo gives to the metro area.

My personal feeling on BiState II is that it is a desperate attempt by Jackson County to get help in fulfilling lease obligations that they signed years ago on their own. And then there's the obvious reason - renovations at Kauffman would rule out a new downtown stadium for a few decades. And I am also against the principle of using any kind of general tax to directly support the arts (though I know someone's going to make me eat those words). In my ideal world, a small and short-lived sales tax increase across the metro would combine with money from the Royals, David Glass, and Hallmark to pay for a low-cost but exceptional stadium. (Cleveland built the Jake with a cigarette-and-alcohol tax. Why couldn't we do something similar?)

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:04 pm

Iâ€™ll say it for the bazillionth time. JoCo will get the same things all the other suburbs will get. Major, regional attractions and cultural additions in a central locaton that help give JoCo the quality of life that makes it a desirable place to live.

I really do not look forward to BSII. Iâ€™m just now getting over listening to so many stupid people on the arena issue.

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:31 pm

eliphar17 wrote:Seriously, use some common sense here. Surely you don't really think that a majority of the sales tax receipts in a county of 500,000 people are paid by non-residents? The money spent by outsiders is surely far outweighed by money spent by the residents of one of the 10 richest counties in the nation (I think that's correct).

Johnson County accounts for roughly 40% of the metro's sales tax revenue, but only has 25% percent of the metro population. No one said a majority of the money was non-residents, but it is definitely a significant number.

It's really shortsighted to see this as a zero-sum game. You simply cannot do a 1-to-1 comparison of expenses and returns.

KCI isn't in Overland Park, but Kansans still use it and benefit from its presence. Oak Park Mall isn't in Lee's Summit, but Missourians still use it and benefit from it's presence.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:35 pm

Yeah I don't really understand this thinking....if it's not in your suburb it still benefits you a great deal. I was completely for joco "getting something" if it was really that important. The leaders in Johnson Co. obviously decided it wasn't because no plans came forward when asked.

It's all one big city...we all benefit from Worlds of Fun no matter where it's at....just like danger said.

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:33 pm

dangerboy wrote:This is a sales tax. Much of money Joco pays actually comes from Missourians shopping in Joco.

That is patently absurd. There are 500K residents here, and I guarantee you they pay the vast bulk of any sales tax.

Further, I'd even bet that more Kansas dollars are spent in KCMO than vice versa. Tack that to the amount "contributed" to Bi-State by JOCOs.

(by the way: i would vote for some PAC funding if by itself)

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:44 pm

pittsburghparoyal wrote:
dangerboy wrote:This is a sales tax. Much of money Joco pays actually comes from Missourians shopping in Joco.
That is patently absurd. There are 500K residents here, and I guarantee you they pay the vast bulk of any sales tax.

Further, I'd even bet that more Kansas dollars are spent in KCMO than vice versa. Tack that to the amount "contributed" to Bi-State by JOCOs.

(by the way: i would vote for some PAC funding if by itself)

If Jo Co was in Missouri, would anyone give a flying fuck who shops where and which county spends more money on sales tax? You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of crying girlie men...

If you want to assert how powerful Jo Co and its Panera bucks are in the metro try stop going to KCMO or Missouri, don't go to the Plaza, don't go downtown, don't go to the zoo, don't go to Chiefs, don't go to Royals, don't go to Worlds of Fun, don't go to KCI, don't go to the casinos, don't drive on MO roadways...

Believe it or not, but KC will go on without you.

Maitre D · Post by **Maitre D** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:54 pm

trailerkid wrote:If you want to assert how powerful Jo Co and its Panera bucks are in the metro try stop going to KCMO or Missouri, don't go to the Plaza, don't go downtown, don't go to the zoo, don't go to Chiefs, don't go to Royals, don't go to Worlds of Fun, don't go to KCI, don't go to the casinos, don't drive on MO roadways...

Don't be so sure. The TSC has nothing but a string of cars headed back to JOCO on game days, and I can only imagine what the other institutions of KCMO would do w/o JOCO money.

(Like, build an arena. No KCMO firm stepped up with teh bucks)

Believe it or not, but KC will go on without you.

You sure about that? Ask Union Station if that's accurate.

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