We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
earthling
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by earthling »

The current airport design makes as much sense as a pyramid tablet...

Image

It will be a small time airport and keep KC a smallish market because it can't effectively even operate as a mini hub. Many companies looking to move won't move here w/out many non stop flight markets. Need to at least become a mini hub again. There used to be over 100 nonstop markets from KCI, now it's around 40 with a few more seasonal. Might hurt convention biz too. There are too many better airports out there now so KCI will continue to be overlooked even as a mini hub unless able to brew a local startup like Vangard again.
Last edited by earthling on Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

It has hurt convention business.
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JLowe2018
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by JLowe2018 »

earthling wrote:The current airport design makes as much sense as a pyramid tablet...

Image

It will be a small time airport and keep KC a smallish market because it can't effectively even operate as a mini hub. Many companies looking to move won't move here w/out many non stop flight markets. Need to at least become a mini hub again. There used to be over 100 nonstop markets from KCI, now it's around 40 with a few more seasonal. Might hurt convention biz too. There are too many better airports out there now so KCI will continue to be overlooked even as a mini hub unless able to brew a local startup like Vangard again.
To quote the actor that plays Dwight...

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cityscape
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by cityscape »

I've now heard this from a couple folks, but I would definitely refrain from calling it anything but a rumor. Anyway, the rumor is that the real reason Terminal A was mothballed was to provide parts for both B and C. Apparently the terminals are in such bad shape that they are taking parts from A to replace those in B and C. If this were to be true, why not tell the public and build support for replacing with a new terminal before we run out of parts and have to start investing real money to keep the place running.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

Exactly. Why not make this public? Currently the rumor is they did it just to make it uncomfortable for everyone and change people mind
swid
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by swid »

The optics aren't great on this if it's true, as there's approximately a 100% chance it would be spun as "our CORRUPT City Hall PURPOSELY let our wonderful and convenient airport FALL APART just so they could pass their SCAM bond issue to benefit their CRONIES" by the CFRG crowd.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

swid wrote:The optics aren't great on this if it's true, as there's approximately a 100% chance it would be spun as "our CORRUPT City Hall PURPOSELY let our wonderful and convenient airport FALL APART just so they could pass their SCAM bond issue to benefit their CRONIES" by the CFRG crowd.
If this was the first time big airport work has come up it would be realistic to explain that we built the airport in the 60s and we're reviewing the situation, here's the problems we have, but the last bond measure in the 90s was the time to proactively take care of things

Only horrible work done 15 years ago could get to that bad a situation

that said, if the city really didn't take care of things, owning up several years ago and showing exactly why renovation costs so much, it would be a lot harder for people to think renovation is actually a lot less than is said, that the city is inflating the work.

I bet that for most situations systems weren't worked on in the late 90s because the goal was to get to a new terminal but I've never been able to find proof. If anyone has something from when that work was approved ~20 years ago saying definitively either way would be helpful.
JBmidtown
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by JBmidtown »

According to the Star KCI is on a priority list for Trump's administration's infrastructure projects. You all can find the link
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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

Image

He has plans for a lot of new Rail Projects(Subways, Lightrail/Streetcar, Commuter Rail, Highspeed, North East Corridor, Upgraded Chicago and DC Union Stations, etc)
Air Projects (Next Gen ATC, New KCI Terminal, SeTac Expansion, STL Airport Expansion),
a surprising number of boat related projects.

I saw at least 2 projects for Missouri but none in Kansas.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by brewcrew1000 »

Seems odd that St Louis appears on this list, I thought they had an empty terminal and that huge runway they built is hardly used.
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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

brewcrew1000 wrote:Seems odd that St Louis appears on this list, I thought they had an empty terminal and that huge runway they built is hardly used.
I believe it is an expansion of their Cargo terminals.
STLguy1
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by STLguy1 »

Seems odd that St Louis appears on this list, I thought they had an empty terminal and that huge runway they built is hardly used.
Yes... for the new cargo facilities.

As for the empty concourse (Concourse D) - it was announced today that the shuttered concourse will reopen and is currently getting a complete facelift. Late spring it will reopen due to Lambert's big passenger increases in 2016, in addition, Southwest is expanding, again, in the Gateway City. They will have over 110 daily flights come June to over 50 nonstop destinations and the airport overall will increase to 350 nonstop daily flights to over 100 nonstop destinations in the US, Canada, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. The new concourse will be renamed from "D" to the expansion of Concourse E. The new concourse will add an addition 10 gates for Southwest. E Concourse in Terminal two recently just opened the new international arrival gates. Gates E31-E33 immediately are secured gates to the Custom and Immigrations processing center. STL's new processing center has 30 agent gates. By this summer, it is rumored that STL is courting international EU flights to Amsterdam on Lufthansa and London on British Airways. This expansion in Terminal 2 - E Concourse will also feature a new Airport Lounge at the international gates.

Currently, if you have flown through STL on Southwest in Terminal 2 - it is packed and already large. Southwest airlines is at capacity now there... during peak hours many airplanes must wait for gates and tarmac / runway wait times are increasing. This addition will increase their volume even more. Southwest began routing more connections through STL last year (from cities like Wichita, Des Moines and others. Even many KC flights will connect through Terminal 2 in STL. The airline's continues expansion has led to the old concourse renovations and reopening.

STL will now return using all of their concourses by this May. Concourse A and C and E are completely new as of the past 2 years. Now with D being redone and reopening as "E" - the airport will maximize it's space once again (since TWA). The newly renovated concourse will also have the moving walkways to help passengers get to their other Southwest connecting flights faster as Concourse E is already a large walk - but will almost double it's space with the expanded concourse. Southwest will now utilize all of Concourse E from E2 to E40.

As for the new runway, it is utilized continuously today and is not shut down at all. Most flights arriving to Concourse A and C use the new runways to the west (shorter rides to those concourses). Southwest primarily uses the original T2 runways to the east.

http://www.kmov.com/story/34356485/lamb ... -expansion
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

Those were our flights he just described if we would have gotten a new terminal. Enjoy your connections in STL from your convenient airport
shinatoo
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by shinatoo »

They are adding 4 gates at a cost of $700,000. It's just a small expansion of the Southwest terminal.
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im2kull
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by im2kull »

cityscape wrote:Anyway, the rumor is that the real reason Terminal A was mothballed was to provide parts for both B and C. Apparently the terminals are in such bad shape that they are taking parts from A to replace those in B and C.
Not true.
STLguy1
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by STLguy1 »

I wouldn't call STL's SWA growth "small" unless you want to belittle it. The airline continues to increase service continuously in STL.
SWA is adding 4 additional gates. The new concourse will have 4 new gate areas with an additional 10 gates.
SWA just added 2 new gates less that 6 months ago.
At 700,000 dollars it is cosmetic. Concourse D (now E) is in good shape.
Terminal 2 Concourse E is now completely SWA (except for international arrival gates for all airlines). The expansion of E will increase the footprint of Terminal 2 and E Concourse dramatically. The concourse will include additional food options including a third Starbucks in Concourse E / Terminal 2 alone.

Overall the airport reached 14 million passengers in 2016 and increased at over 10% for the year. The increase projection looks even larger for 2017. St. Louis was in the top 10 of airports in growing seat capacity at 9.1 percent for 2016.

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... rs-in-2016

Southwest in STL will serve more than 50 nonstop destinations and 110 daily flights from STL by May. This is more nonstop destinations on one airline than all airlines serving MCI currently. Currently MCI serves just 45 nonstop destinations on all airlines. STL serves close to 80 nonstop destinations on all airlines. By May 2017, STL will have 350 daily departures (from article - not sure what is current), Currently MCI has 165.

For comparisons in growth among others in 2016:
Growth% Total 2016 Passengers

INDY: 5.8% 4.24 million
NASHVILLE: 10% 12.5 million
CINCY: 7.1% 6.8 million
PITTSBURGH: 2.2% 8.3 million
KANSAS CITY: 5.4% 11 million

Overall we increased 5.4%, but STL and Nashville are soaring ahead. STL's terminals are completely renovated and new as are all of their concourses (as of May 2017). Nashville projects new airport by mid 2020's. Memphis is building a new concourse. New Orleans is building a new terminal.

I just flew to Orlando and connected through STL (because of time and frequency) and there was another gentleman on the plane with me connecting in STL (about 40 years old) and he was talking with me in STL waiting for our delayed Orlando flight. He admitted that MCI is so dated BUT was adamant about MCI's ease to fly and that the airport needs to renovate not build a new terminal. Well, that seems to be our problem with perception here. But MCI looks and feels awful in its current condition.

Chicago Midway is takin the hit from SWA moving connections through St. Louis in 2016/2017: only 2.1 increase and decrease in seats. "Bob Mann, industry analyst, said Midway's reduction in flights is primarily the result of Southwest Airlines' restructuring its network."

This isn't an argument. This isn't alternative facts. It is what it is. MCI needs to step up and step up quick because we are losing to these airports that are poising themselves for the next decade.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

FWIW, I recently had experiences at KCI, Dallas, Phoenix and Honolulu. I guess if one just considers going to the airport and getting on a plane quickly KCI would score high. But in the passenger holding area KCI hits rock bottom. Those pens just are not big enough. If one wants to see KCI becoming a hub at any time (yes, a long shot) I don't believe an airline would consider KCI in it's current arrangement. Passengers leaving one secure area for arrival and then needing to go to another secure area to catch a flight outbound and/or getting a meal or snack.
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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

KCI's "Fastness" and "Ease Of Use" is more than offset by long layovers at other airports.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

I don't consider 10 minutes wait to be fast honestly. Faster than a big hub airport? Maybe sometimes but my past few security times at KCI have not been what I would consider fast.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

ldai_phs wrote:KCI's "Fastness" and "Ease Of Use" is more than offset by long layovers at other airports.
But what were the conditions you endured at those long layovers at the other airports? I too had long waits at the other airports. Three hours but at least I had food nearby, didn't have to go through security again, easy access to restrooms and plenty of room to find a place to sit if not at my gate but in the walkway or at a nearby gate. And since I had to change planes I didn't have to go through another TSA security point.
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