We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
moderne
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by moderne » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 pm

And a bait and switch design.

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KCPowercat
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:19 pm

Not wrong

hartliss
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by hartliss » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:27 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:09 am
hartliss wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:04 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:13 pm
Not helpful but I'm not crying a drop for edgmoor..... They own part of this
Not really. As the city council and others have mentioned they have done everything that has been asked of them. They didn't award themselves the business, the city did.
They offered up a timeline during bidding that was not reality.
Did the timeline include the need for four additional gates, Government shutdown and the unorthodox play by the city to have the airlines all sit down together to negotiate vs. just signing a term sheet as they are expected to do in most cities?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by hartliss » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:28 pm

moderne wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 pm
And a bait and switch design.
So edgemoor is the first firm in history to change their design from the beginning to completion?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:40 pm

hartliss wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:28 pm
moderne wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 pm
And a bait and switch design.
So edgemoor is the first firm in history to change their design from the beginning to completion?
Given the cost concerns the airlines are having with this design there's a 100% chance that any design from any company would have been changed.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:15 pm

I think the design looks pretty shit. Like the Sprint center went from spaceship to what we have, but I still like it.

This I think is boring af and all about cost cutting.

The rest of the criticism I find largely unpersuasive. I mostly blame the city here. I still wish we could put the port authority in charge and issue bonds, but I have little knowledge of this area.

Fuck the airlines too.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:42 pm

WoodDraw wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:15 pm
I think the design looks pretty shit. Like the Sprint center went from spaceship to what we have, but I still like it.

This I think is boring af and all about cost cutting.

The rest of the criticism I find largely unpersuasive. I mostly blame the city here. I still wish we could put the port authority in charge and issue bonds, but I have little knowledge of this area.

Fuck the airlines too.
Let's outline what happened

B&M came in with a plan that looked affordable. Accepting a no-bid contract was a bad idea legally.
The design from B&M is a near match to the design we have today with different flairs. click through on this page https://www.kshb.com/news/news-photo-ga ... rminal#id9
There was no agreement on funding with the airlines at that time
The bid process was then handled properly. Now, the plan may have been unrealistic at the price but the process wasn't the cause of this problem. Plus, hindsight is 20-20
The schedule was unrealistic because the airlines still weren't on board with the cost mostly because they didn't have a selected plan to assess until after the city signed paperwork with Edgemoor
The airlines then delayed things by increasing the size and thus the total cost.
Now doing price diligence is totally fair. The city has no more or less control over the airlines than the Port Authority would.

The city is largely reliant on companies giving realistic prices up front and you can't blame them when the airlines want cost cutting after they wanted the project scope increased.

About the only thing you have a point on is around issuing bonds vs not. And that has no part of the delay. If financing was the problem we would know it already.

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KCPowercat
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:13 am

Committee this week has more ordinances on the docket... Is this a good sign? They aren't marked as held in committee either

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:07 pm

190026, 27 and 28 is a trio of bills to issue $2 billion in airport revenue bonds.

There's only two signs that could be better

Approval to build from the airlines and government.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:54 pm

So Loar throws a fit in committee about people talking to people (reasonable) then goes and reached out to AECOM?

cityscape
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by cityscape » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:33 pm

Is she really running unopposed??

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:49 pm

Two running against her

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:58 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:49 pm
Two running against her
Nope

11 or 12 running for mayor. Chastain got a distant third last time. With so many well known names he's at least going to be in 7th place.

Three current council members are running unopposed, one replacement member is as well.
A full third of the council is effectively already a given and the 1st District (Clay) already knows who their council members are.

There's clearly more civic interest on running from the east side this time around. More people signed up for the 3rd district seats than the 1st, 2nd and 6th combined.

1st: 1x (only incumbent)- Hall
1st al: 1x
2nd: 2x (includes incumbent)- Fowler
2nd al; 1x (only incumbent)- Loar
3rd: 7x or 8x
3rd al: 2x
4th: 3x
4th al: 3x (includes incumbent)- Shields
5th: 5x or 6x
5th al: 3x (includes incumbent)- Barnes
6th: 1x (only incumbent)- McManus
6th al: 2x

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KCPowercat
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:11 pm

Whoops. Not sure what I counted wrong. Embarrassing nobody is running against her.

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:12 pm

flyingember wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:58 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:49 pm
Two running against her
Nope

11 or 12 running for mayor. Chastain got a distant third last time. With so many well known names he's at least going to be in 7th place.

Three current council members are running unopposed, one replacement member is as well.
A full third of the council is effectively already a given and the 1st District (Clay) already knows who their council members are.

There's clearly more civic interest on running from the east side this time around. More people signed up for the 3rd district seats than the 1st, 2nd and 6th combined.

1st: 1x (only incumbent)- Hall
1st al: 1x
2nd: 2x (includes incumbent)- Fowler
2nd al; 1x (only incumbent)- Loar
3rd: 7x or 8x
3rd al: 2x
4th: 3x
4th al: 3x (includes incumbent)- Shields
5th: 5x or 6x
5th al: 3x (includes incumbent)- Barnes
6th: 1x (only incumbent)- McManus
6th al: 2x
It would have been great to see Hall and Lora replaced this cycle. Hopefully we will at least see Shields replaced

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by FangKC » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:32 pm

KCI repairing historic 'Super Hangar' facility
Even with plans to build a new terminal in the works, crews are fixing the oldest hangar at Kansas City International Airport.

The "Super Hangar" is separate from the passenger terminals. It sits east of the main facility and currently houses Aviation Technical Services, a company that overhauls and maintains passenger jets.
...
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/k ... afjQSurg2k

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KCPowercat
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:57 pm

“My guess is that the shutdown will affect the EA, but I can’t say for sure because the regional office has been unclear on some of the departments — who’s working and who’s not,”
Klein is starting to drive me nuts. Make some calls/emails, see who is working. This "guessing" ho hum answers aren't acceptable.

That and the airline rep today saying the process we're doing isn't normal for airlines and we are asking them to sign term sheets earlier than airlines are used to, before they get more firm costs, is strengthening my opinion we don't have the best people at KCAD to do this project.

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:04 am

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:57 pm
“My guess is that the shutdown will affect the EA, but I can’t say for sure because the regional office has been unclear on some of the departments — who’s working and who’s not,”
Klein is starting to drive me nuts. Make some calls/emails, see who is working. This "guessing" ho hum answers aren't acceptable.

That and the airline rep today saying the process we're doing isn't normal for airlines and we are asking them to sign term sheets earlier than airlines are used to, before they get more firm costs, is strengthening my opinion we don't have the best people at KCAD to do this project.
I think you misunderstood his comments on the EA. It sounds like he interfaces with the local FAA office for the enviromental assesment. The local office is still at work and so they have been able to make some progress (albeit slow). Once the local office finishes their tasks they will submit it up their own chain of command (legal DC department was noted). I would assume that the national office rarely speaks directly with airports and that Klein (or other airport directors) would have no real idea of who is at work at the national office.

I believe that the term sheet signing timeline may be a reference to the design-build procurement plan of KCI. While it is not overly common, bigger airports such as LaGuardia have used it as it becomes more common procurement process.

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KCPowercat
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:05 am

I understood the EA as you described it. If we are working close with the regional office why aren't we asking them to find out who is at work that would be necessary for approvals? He just kind of threw his hands up....shucks I don't know who is working but it probably will impact us.

I'm not sure what the term sheet timeline was in reference to other than the airline rep said it was unusual and seems to be throwing the airlines for a loop on getting it signed. That's cause for alarm when you hear things like that.

I'm not a fan of hesther hall but she had a great question on the baggage system that didn't get answered. This isn't unique to KC so why is it such a stocking point with the airlines?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by MidtownCat » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:00 pm

So while we bumble around and ultimately will settle for a second rate piece of crap that looks like it belongs in Oklahoma City, Chicago is going to do their new terminal right.

Refreshing to see a city that gets it and ultimately is going to prioritize great design and visitor experience.

https://voteord21.flychicago.com/vision ... fault.aspx

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