Why is Legends Taking So Long?!?!?

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:43 pm

I wonder if Wy Co has any kind of contract with RED that binds them to a timeline. If I was Wy Co, I would try to get out of the contract immediately and bring in General Growth or Mills.

RED failing to execute with the Legends is dragging the entire project down. There's no reason that with the amount of people Cabela's and NFM draw that there couldn't be a large, tourist-oriented, suburban shopping center out there.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:31 am

trailerkid wrote:I wonder if Wy Co has any kind of contract with RED that binds them to a timeline. If I was Wy Co, I would try to get out of the contract immediately and bring in General Growth or Mills.

RED failing to execute with the Legends is dragging the entire project down. There's no reason that with the amount of people Cabela's and NFM draw that there couldn't be a large, tourist-oriented, suburban shopping center out there.

Yes there is, retailers are not stupid. Competition is going to be fierce with the Downtown entertainment district, Bass Pro in Independence, OP arena district, zona rosa etc all of which have far more people, hotels, etc to support those projects long term. Legends will probably happen, but it will take a while for the population and demographics of western KCK to catch up enough to support the project without depending quite as much on the rest of the metro.

I talked to several people over the weekend that wanted to go to NFM and Cabellas for shopping but just did not want to drive clear out there. They made the trip last year, but the "destination" is already starting to decrease a bit for most people on this side of town. When Bass Pro and another 500,000 sq ft of "destination" (destination meaning for the east metro) retail opens with Bass Pro and is added to the millions of sq ft of retail already in the Indep Center area, all with hundreds of thousands of people in the area and probably the bussiest tourist highway in the metro.

Just think about that, the retailers that are considering the Legends are.

I see Palaza 16 is opening in OP this weekend. The theater was anounced long after Legends.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:00 am

GRID wrote: but the "destination" is already starting to decrease a bit for most people on this side of town. When Bass Pro and another 500,000 sq ft of "destination" (destination meaning for the east metro) retail opens with Bass Pro and is added to the millions of sq ft of retail already in the Indep Center area, all with hundreds of thousands of people in the area and probably the bussiest tourist highway in the metro.

Grid...destination does NOT mean that people drive there from that side of the metro only. The idea is to draw people within a three hour radius. People from places like Wichita come to shop at places like NFM or Cabela's-- they do and that is a fact. These businesses are not here just to serve KC, but to serve a larger regional market. That is precisely the reason places like NFM deliver their products 90 miles away.

Legends has bad demos and that is not a secret. But the demos of a particular portion of a market doesn't matter when your market is a 200 mile radius. If you will remember, the whole reason they brought Warren Theatres in was because they were going to build a theatre which would be a destination facility that would draw from the entire metro-- AMC on steriods. That deal fell through and they have a regular theatre now. Unfortuneately RED has not been able to convince any major destination retailers of the strength of the region and it is time for Wy Co to cut them off from the project and let a bigger developer take over.

BTW, Bass Pro is saturating the market and becoming nothing more than a glorified Wal-Mart outdoor retailer. They will have stores in Council Bluffs, Columbia, StL, Springfield, Branson, Wichita, and possibly Des Moines by the time the first KC store opens. Remember, they're building 2 stores in KC alone.

I feel like you are reveling in the fact that Legends is a failure so far and it will help KC metro to have a large suburban attraction similar to Mall of America or the area around Grapevine Mills in Texas.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:07 am

If they can't draw people from Lee's Summit, how the hell are they going to draw people from Boonville?

I understand what you are saying, but "destination" is so overated now and without a solid local demographic base, it's going to be very difficult for Legends to succeed long term.

I wish them luck and maybe they do need a developer with more pull than RED.

Tosspot · Post by **Tosspot** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:52 am

We drove by Legends on up to Piper for Thanksgiving Dinner. It would seem that KCK has finally entered the 1970s by erecting such a mish-mash of big box, parking lagoon retail. I don't know whether to be happy for KCK or to just throw up.

Highlander · Post by **Highlander** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:07 am

GRID wrote:If they can't draw people from Lee's Summit, how the hell are they going to draw people from Boonville?

I understand what you are saying, but "destination" is so overated now and without a solid local demographic base, it's going to be very difficult for Legends to succeed long term.

I wish them luck and maybe they do need a developer with more pull than RED.

Legends will have a tough time drawing at all from the east. Who's going to take I-70 west and pass by a happening place like the Power & Light district in DT kansas City and continue off towards non-descript sub-urban KCK? Perhaps, one or two of the more spectacular restaurants like the dinosaur themed place might be a regional hit but, overall, Legends will need to rely on local support, NASCAR/T-bone game visitors, Cabella/NFM customers plus the odd traveller they can pull off I-70 going from St. Louis to Denver (or wherever). I'm not knocking KCK, I just don't think the Legends is going to have the kind of ambiance to make it a destination stop. I might take the kids to an individual restuarant there once in a while when I'm in town but would spend a much greater part of my time in the more urbane Plaza/DT environments.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:42 am

GRID wrote:If they can't draw people from Lee's Summit, how the hell are they going to draw people from Boonville?

It'll draw people intent on spending money as opposed to those who just want to spend an afternoon browsing.

Before NFM opened here, I used to drive to Omaha to do major furniture purchases because it was far cheaper than buying it anywhere locally.

Post by **dangerboy** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:49 am

So many places are pursuing "destination" retail that the concept is losing its power. Especially when multiple places *within* a metro area pursue destination status. Bass Pro, Hard Rock, etc. are all good examples of destination chains that are reaching the saturation point. Remember back when people used to make pilgrammages for Krispy Kreme or Starbucks?

If Independence added Ikea to Bass Pro, that would cut off a big chunk of the eastern and norhtern sides of NFM/Cabela's market.

aknowledgeableperson · Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:44 am

My wife and I went to NFM a few weeks ago at lunch time. It was busy. Don't know if people were buying but they were in the store. Went to Famous Dave's afterwards for a late lunch/early dinner. We will take KC BBQ anytime, especially Jack's Stack or Smokestack. But they were packed at that time of day with no office buildings around.
But what will make the area, outside of the limited race track business and the ball park, are two things. Uniqueness of the businesses to the area and then a developing neighborhood. The area will have to have restaurants and other business that are at no other location in the KC area.
Guess that is what is meant by a destination shopping area.

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:22 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:My wife and I went to NFM a few weeks ago at lunch time. It was busy. Don't know if people were buying but they were in the store. Went to Famous Dave's afterwards for a late lunch/early dinner. We will take KC BBQ anytime, especially Jack's Stack or Smokestack. But they were packed at that time of day with no office buildings around.
But what will make the area, outside of the limited race track business and the ball park, are two things. Uniqueness of the businesses to the area and then a developing neighborhood. The area will have to have restaurants and other business that are at no other location in the KC area.
Guess that is what is meant by a destination shopping area.

Thanks for a reply that was not negative. My hope is that the Legends itself will help inspire more developers to build a LOT more housing in western KCK. There is a lot of open area ready for development and retail should attract that development. I just hope it doesn't take 20 years.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:24 pm

There is indeed walls going up on what looks to be the theatre complex at Legends. This will be a great and needed addition to Wy Co.

Beermo · Post by **Beermo** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:13 pm

i was out there yesterday. went to nfm and amini's. when i first got there i couldn't find amini's so i stopped and looked around for a copper dome. there it was next to nfm. i must say that they have the nicest pool tables i have ever seen. wow. if you have just signed a multi-million dollar contract and want to buy a pool table that is where you go. or if you're the head of sprint-nextel. don't go there if you're looking for a deal. the salesman was quick to point out that george brett bought that table there with the matching bar and accessories. the table he was referring to was hand-carved and cost around 15k.

and to the guy who was looking at bar stools.....nfm had a bunch in the clearance dept. some as low as $15. flat screens are still not in the price range i want though but nfm has them all. nice selection.

amini guy told me that the theater was coming along and that they were building an ihop next to them.

KCK · Post by **KCK** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:25 pm

I reported on the IHOP a few months back. To tell you the truth, I will be happy to have a place to eat at 3AM aside from Wyandotte Cafe and Waffle House.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:33 pm

Victory Junction baby!!!

Let's hope they next announce a good seafood place...you know, Long John Silvers

(not that Captain D crap )

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:12 pm

So is amini's bigger or better than the one in OP? I'll have to check it out.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:40 pm

GRID wrote:So is amini's bigger or better than the one in OP? I'll have to check it out.

It appears to be similar in size to the OP location.

You guys can mock this development all you want, but the facts are:
1. It is employing a lot of people in Wy Co.
2. It is drawing shoppers into Wy Co.
3. It is providing additional places for people from Wy Co to shop and dine in their own county.

Beermo · Post by **Beermo** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:39 am

trailerkid wrote:
GRID wrote:So is amini's bigger or better than the one in OP? I'll have to check it out.
It appears to be similar in size to the OP location.

You guys can mock this development all you want, but the facts are:
1. It is employing a lot of people in Wy Co.
2. It is drawing shoppers into Wy Co.
3. It is providing additional places for people from Wy Co to shop and dine in their own county.

hey trailerkiddie.......don't get your high pants in an uproar. i haven't seen one post on this thread that is mocking anything here. i would add a couple of more things to say but i think your mommy is calling you for dinner.

Beltonhawk · Post by **Beltonhawk** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:05 am

hey trailerkiddie.......don't get your high pants in an uproar. i haven't seen one post on this thread that is mocking anything here. i would add a couple of more things to say but i think your mommy is calling you for dinner.

Incredibly mature.

You obviously don't read the board that closely, because there has plenty of shit spoken about Legends. Maybe not in this particular thread (can't remember), but in general. I don't see anything wrong with what TK said. He's simply offering some positives about the development to counteract what others have said.

Edit: Took out the last part. No need to stoop to his level.

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:19 am

trailerkid wrote:
GRID wrote:So is amini's bigger or better than the one in OP? I'll have to check it out.
It appears to be similar in size to the OP location.

You guys can mock this development all you want, but the facts are:
1. It is employing a lot of people in Wy Co.
2. It is drawing shoppers into Wy Co.
3. It is providing additional places for people from Wy Co to shop and dine in their own county.

It's being mocked so much because the developers promised way more than they are delivering. They dangled names like Hard Rock Cafe and Virgin Mega Store, but delivered Sonic and Applebees.

Legends itself is not the "destination retail" that was promised, but will still compliment the real Vilale West destinations like the Speedway and NFM.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:03 pm

dangerboy wrote:They dangled names like Hard Rock Cafe and Virgin Mega Store, but delivered Sonic and Applebees.

Legends itself is not the "destination retail" that was promised, but will still compliment the real Vilale West destinations like the Speedway and NFM.

Don't you think it's a bit premature judging a project before construction has even started?