KCRag Forum

^ as a P&L resident I am continually amazed at how rare it is to see police downtown

I’ve also heard from reputable sources that the shortage of officers on the payroll is so bad that there are nights where there are less than 2 officers patrolling the entire northland.

I laugh every time I go into cosentinos and the off duty officer is having lunch at the table. I don’t think he gets up from that table.

I think downtown we have a culture problem. Police don’t want to get out of their cars.

On the plaza you have horses and people walking around for big events.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a police officer just patrolling downtown

I have never ever seen a street cop in KCMO. When I am in town, I walk everywhere non stop for days at a time all throughout the urban core. The only place you will see cops is when they are walking from their cars into the HQ building or flying around town with their sirens on. But honestly there are so few pedestrians that I'm sure not it would make a lot of sense unless there is an event going on or downtown is busy for some reason. But they should have some working the P&L and River Market areas at least.

Regardless, these issues with people doing donuts in the middle of cities is a national problem and really a national embarrassment. Are Americans so bored and unsophisticated that this is what they do for entertainment and do we not have any sort of decent justice system to stop it? I guess I already know the answers to both questions.

I was at a meeting this spring about downtown security with several downtown developers in attendance. How much they were all spending on off-duty came up and due to KCPD raising those prices, they were all complaining at the increased cost. One of the developers said, "We all pay a ton in taxes and generate revenue for the city, where the fuck are the free cops!"

They have a point. Why isn't the city properly protecting it's own investments and important areas? I'm not suggesting they ignore other areas, this is why we need MORE police officers.

Or maybe letting us call the shots instead of the state might help? I mean, it is our city after all, we know what's going on when Jeff City is quiet & sleepy.

TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:38 pm Or maybe letting us call the shots instead of the state might help? I mean, it is our city after all, we know what's going on when Jeff City is quiet & sleepy.

I know it's a weird setup but I can't imagine the Mayor, city manager, council and citizens have zero say in how the PD is ran?

DMNBT_RCJH wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:52 am I lived in downtown Memphis for four years. The policing of downtown Memphis is night and day better than that of downtown KC. Memphis has similar issues to KC in that the MPD's responsible area is huge (324 square miles vs. Kansas City at 319 square miles), is also fairly racially gerrymandered, and has significant gun violence issues.

The biggest difference: the frequency of patrols (both on foot and in vehicles) and visibility of police operations.

My wife and I went to Odesza on Friday night, and walked from our P&L adjacent apartment through the fall festival and to the T-Mobile entrance and did not see a single police officer except the one at the entrance to T-Mobile. It was eye-opening.

I'm glad to hear there was seemingly a large presence on Saturday prior to the kerfuffle. But they needed to be there earlier, in force, and visible.

Lastly, regarding the officer shortages, I was stunned to see that the starting salary for an officer begins around 48K a year. That's about 12K too low. In addition, the police chief at 180K is also about 25% too low. Money alone cannot fix the perception of police, as DCole alluded to, but it can help on the margins.

The KCPD staffing shortage is less about pay, and more about people quitting who were tired of being shit on. The department has lost massive numbers of veteran cops over the last three years. All it took was Jean Peters Baker, unabated riots/neutering, and mandatory covid vaccinations.

Half the folks (or more) in this county don't typically like those things.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:42 pm I have never ever seen a street cop in KCMO. When I am in town, I walk everywhere non stop for days at a time all throughout the urban core. The only place you will see cops is when they are walking from their cars into the HQ building or flying around town with their sirens on. But honestly there are so few pedestrians that I'm sure not it would make a lot of sense unless there is an event going on or downtown is busy for some reason. But they should have some working the P&L and River Market areas at least.
...

You guys will not believe what I saw today (around 3:15 pm) in the Crossroads at 19th and Wyandotte--a female police officer walking a patrol. I chatted her up for like 20 minutes before I had to leave for an appointment.

There used to be a horse patrol unit that you'd see out in the City parks, River Market, the Plaza, and Westport a lot. They got rid of the unit citing budgetary reasons.

When I still lived downtown (prior to 2009) I recall seeing cops on bikes occasionally.

Why is anybody on here carrying water for KCPD? You can be pro cop and still see they are failing us.

The new groves make the street look unfinished and embarrassing. It's amazing how cops can't just arrest and impound vehicles from people doing sideshows. KC is incapable of solving anything

Then blame the state. Plenty of people in KC proper would love to have everyone on the same page but we will never be able to do that unless we can rightfully govern our municipality instead of having to follow an extremely archaic law from a century ago.

Hard to blame the police for not wanting to engage in breaking up anti social behavior where they would be clearly outmanned and outgunned.

Police would need to roll heavy to break up the larger sideshows, and there clearly isn't appetite or resources to do that for whatever reason.

DMNBT_RCJH wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:31 pm Hard to blame the police for not wanting to engage in breaking up anti social behavior where they would be clearly outmanned and outgunned.

Police would need to roll heavy to break up the larger sideshows, and there clearly isn't appetite or resources to do that for whatever reason.

But at one point there was. 2017-2019 I remember watching KCPD corner the side shows downtown with multiple PD units.

TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:01 pm Then blame the state. Plenty of people in KC proper would love to have everyone on the same page but we will never be able to do that unless we can rightfully govern our municipality instead of having to follow an extremely archaic law from a century ago.

Tired of reading this. The local government fails at many things the idea that if they just controlled the police department it would fix everything is a farce. St Louis controls there own department now and it's still a mess.

Nobody cares how st Louis is doing anything. It's a dying rustbelt. Give KC local control then we can at least have local accountability

How would local control help get more officers hired? Our problem isn’t who controls the PD. It’s the lack of officers and the overall treatment of the police over the last few years has strongly contributed to no one wanting to be a cop.

Why we dance around this reality is beyond me.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:28 pm How would local control help get more officers hired? Our problem isn’t who controls the PD. It’s the lack of officers and the overall treatment of the police over the last few years has strongly contributed to no one wanting to be a cop.

Why we dance around this reality is beyond me.

millions in annual cost savings from removing duplicative admin structures

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:28 pm How would local control help get more officers hired? Our problem isn’t who controls the PD. It’s the lack of officers and the overall treatment of the police over the last few years has strongly contributed to no one wanting to be a cop.

Why we dance around this reality is beyond me.

They have enough budget. Don't try and make this political, they don't have anybody who cares overseeing them.

Go compare their budget to any other city, it's not money problem.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:55 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:28 pm How would local control help get more officers hired? Our problem isn’t who controls the PD. It’s the lack of officers and the overall treatment of the police over the last few years has strongly contributed to no one wanting to be a cop.

Why we dance around this reality is beyond me.

They have enough budget. Don't try and make this political, they don't have anybody who cares overseeing them.

Go compare their budget to any other city, it's not money problem.

I'm not aiming to make this a political statement, but that's precisely my main point. People are often hesitant to address the truth, leading us to point fingers at factors that aren't the root cause, such as state control of the police department, all in an attempt to avoid discussing the significant, albeit uncomfortable, issues.

While they do possess the budget and are making extensive efforts to recruit, the shortage of willing candidates remains a critical challenge. Shifting control to the local level may not necessarily resolve this issue. Our recent treatment of the profession, particularly over the last four years, has undeniably played a role in exacerbating this problem. So, if this is deemed a political statement, then so be it. It might also be political to acknowledge that certain actions by the police in specific situations have contributed to the current perception of the profession.

It's simply astonishing to consider that state control is the primary, factor behind the staffing shortage.

Even if they were adequately staffed, there is significant reluctance to interact with specific communities in certain circumstances due to fear. A simple mistake, even if unintentional, can lead to civilian unrest and have life-altering consequences for the officers involved.

Lastly, addressing the street racing issue is a formidable challenge due to the substantial risk it poses, not only to law enforcement but also to bystanders who gather to watch. There’s the constant danger of vehicles speeding away at dangerously high rates.

The reality is the ~~38k starting salary is just pitifully low. You could make more stacking two entry level retail jobs.

Yes, its the reputation about being a police officer, but its also the fact that the private sector pays so much better. Who would sign up for that? It's just not competitive.

We've got to get serious in this country about taxes, many of which will need to go higher, or at the very least reallocated, to provide the services people expect.