Grand Blvd Closures

[DColeKC]

This conversation reminds me so much of the westport street privatization.

In what way?

[Cratedigger]

This conversation reminds me so much of the westport street privatization.

In what way?

Not solving the underlying issue but pushing it (very slightly) elsewhere?

[im2kull]

Another shooting. 3 teens. Cornucopia.

It's nice to see that we still haven't figured out how to have a proper police presence nor enforcement to prevent future crimes downtown. I'm already hearing from many people who are preparing to leave the Grand and Two Light because of the constant violence occurring just outside. And, I don't blame them. Why risk your life when you can just go live in the suburbs for less money? The violence in the area is definitely a much bigger problem than the cars doing occasional donuts outside.

[DColeKC]

Another shooting. 3 teens. Cornucopia.

It's nice to see that we still haven't figured out how to have a proper police presence nor enforcement to prevent future crimes downtown. I'm already hearing from many people who are preparing to leave the Grand and Two Light because of the constant violence occurring just outside. And, I don't blame them. Why risk your life when you can just go live in the suburbs for less money? The violence in the area is definitely a much bigger problem than the cars doing occasional donuts outside.

To clarify, that did not happen at Cornucopia but some fights did break out during the evening. 150 kids broke out into multiple fights outside of T-Mobiles entrance, they all ran towards the surface parking lot and that's when the shots were fired.

I literally saw it all happen and it was predicable that something was going go down. Kids were slowly assembling after 6pm and the nonsense started to happen. I was standing with a police officer on 13th street when all the kids started fighting again 30 minutes after the shots were fired. When they all scattered, most of them had smiles on their faces like it was a big game of tag. We have some serious fucking issues and I have no clue how to help.

Also, there was already a large police presence because some moron climbed up onto a roof and they were trying to get that punk down when the shots fired call went out. They were onsite within 90 seconds of the call. Caught at least one of the kids who shot. These kids don't care about the consequences. I watched one kid who was being held down by a cop agree to chill out. As soon as he was let up, he took his shirt off and went back in for more fighting. I blame the parents or lack thereof.

Thank god I was with some buddies hanging out and not with my family.

[WoodDraw]

I know this isn't a popular idea these days, but one way to prevent these things is by enforcing city law. If you see a group drinking in a parking lot, the police can issue tickets and disburse them.

You can also develop the parking lot and hold owners responsible.

I was there earlier and everything seemed fine, but I saw no police. Prevention needs to happen earlier.

[DColeKC]

I know this isn't a popular idea these days, but one way to prevent these things is by enforcing city law. If you see a group drinking in a parking lot, the police can issue tickets and disburse them.

You can also develop the parking lot and hold owners responsible.

I was there earlier and everything seemed fine, but I saw no police. Prevention needs to happen earlier.

The problem here is their presence wasn't unlawful as they weren't drinking. Once the fighting started, police tried to break things up. It was all kids as young as 13 or so up to 18.

Developing that lot would be a big help.

Vendors said everything had been great all weekend besides this situation. Police said they didn't get onsite until after 7pm due to some protests around town that took all their attention. I did notice a heavy presence after 8pm.

[WoodDraw]

I know this isn't a popular idea these days, but one way to prevent these things is by enforcing city law. If you see a group drinking in a parking lot, the police can issue tickets and disburse them.

You can also develop the parking lot and hold owners responsible.

I was there earlier and everything seemed fine, but I saw no police. Prevention needs to happen earlier.

The problem here is their presence wasn't unlawful as they weren't drinking. Once the fighting started, police tried to break things up. It was all kids as young as 13 or so up to 18.

Developing that lot would be a big help.

Vendors said everything had been great all weekend besides this situation. Police said they didn't get onsite until after 7pm due to some protests around town that took all their attention. I did notice a heavy presence after 8pm.

I left around 7ish so that seems fair. Tbf, drinking was just an example. Trespassing? Laws are notoriously wide.

Downtown can't be policed like it was two decades ago. Just a wider presence.

I'll note that the sideshows were going on last night as well. I had to close my window it got so loud downtown.

[im2kull]

Like I said, arrest criminals, send them to jail, and don't let them out.

Having cops usher people around and ignore crimes in progress is the epitome of a failing, criminal sanctuary city. The problems continue to grow because of the neutering lack of enforcement, and sense of no repercussion. The solution is simple. Extremely simple.

[im2kull]

These kids don't care about the consequences. I watched one kid who was being held down by a cop agree to chill out. As soon as he was let up, he took his shirt off and went back in for more fighting. I blame the parents or lack thereof.

Cuffs. Paddywagon. Jail.

That's the solution. End of story.


It's not the cops job to decide who to blame, and how forgiving to be. It's their job to arrest criminals, prevent additional crimes, and protect the public. This weekend was an absolute failure, as are most nights downtown.

[WoodDraw]

I mean, let's settle down. I've lived downtown longer than I care to remember and I walk every day without an issue.

To be fare to the police, it's a hard issue. You try to start people and everyone runs/drives away and you can cause more violence that way.

I think preventative engagement and camera based policing is the solution, but we'll need help from the state.

Also requiring either development of lots or policing them as well. They can hire their own security if they don't want to sell.

[Jblanco]

If those caught were minors throw the parents in jail too.

They bad seeds ruined downtown in the 1960s and they will ruin downtown in the 2020s.

[DColeKC]

Right now, these juveniles know there are no consequences. The kid or kids who shot someone will likely get a slap on the wrist.

If a business starts policies to try and protect themselves they risk public backlash too. We all remember the dress code fiasco that still lingers today.

Difficult problem and I agree with enforcing every law possible. Arrest all of them and let them spend a night in jail. I bet this festival has to change a bunch of things next year which will probably make it less successful. All because parents aren’t parenting.

[WoodDraw]

Everyone is talking with no facts. I've checked all the news and there is nothing.

We can't do anything because they're doing nothing illegal but also let's arrest their parents too.

This is all unhelpful complete bs.

We need to have a discussion on how to better police downtown and you all are near the bottom of contributing helpfulness

[KCPowercat]

Police actually on the streets would help. Not huddled up inside the perimeter of whatever event is paying them to be there off duty. Any of us living downtown know how rare seeing s cop downtown is.

The social and parenting issues are definitely a root cause they needs help as well.

[DColeKC]

Everyone is talking with no facts. I've checked all the news and there is nothing.

We can't do anything because they're doing nothing illegal but also let's arrest their parents too.

This is all unhelpful complete bs.

We need to have a discussion on how to better police downtown and you all are near the bottom of contributing helpfulness

What facts are we not talking about? I was there and witnessed the entire thing.

There is a city ordinance that allows the kids to be arrested and parents fined. They used this in the plaza but I’m not sure if that curfew applies year round or just in the summer months.

I guess if being helpful is discussing improving police presence downtown, sure, I just thought that was as obvious as saying you need to wear a coat outside when it’s cold.

We don’t have enough police to do it. We probably never will again. The police are spread to thin. Millions of dollars a year is spent by property owners hiring off duty to protect their property. Yet this crap can happen a block away and have a devastating impact on business.

[droopy]

I hope the 360 program helps some. I don’t know much about it other than the KCUR story.

https://www.kcur.org/podcast/up-to-date ... mahas-book

[KCPowercat]

Everyone is talking with no facts. I've checked all the news and there is nothing.

We can't do anything because they're doing nothing illegal but also let's arrest their parents too.

This is all unhelpful complete bs.

We need to have a discussion on how to better police downtown and you all are near the bottom of contributing helpfulness

What facts are we not talking about? I was there and witnessed the entire thing.

There is a city ordinance that allows the kids to be arrested and parents fined. They used this in the plaza but I’m not sure if that curfew applies year round or just in the summer months.

I guess if being helpful is discussing improving police presence downtown, sure, I just thought that was as obvious as saying you need to wear a coat outside when it’s cold.

We don’t have enough police to do it. We probably never will again. The police are spread to thin. Millions of dollars a year is spent by property owners hiring off duty to protect their property. Yet this crap can happen a block away and have a devastating impact on business.

The PD has plenty of funding (based on what I've seen from peer cities) they have no accountability locally on how that money is spent. Hence my assumption is it's blown in admin and leadership versus cops on the street. It is tough to hire cops when they aren't paid and that's set in leadership. That is fix number one.

Off duty cops aren't the answer for reasons you point out. It's not fixing any problems. Much like the nexus of this.thread it just moves the problem.

[WoodDraw]

Everyone is talking with no facts. I've checked all the news and there is nothing.

We can't do anything because they're doing nothing illegal but also let's arrest their parents too.

This is all unhelpful complete bs.

We need to have a discussion on how to better police downtown and you all are near the bottom of contributing helpfulness

What facts are we not talking about? I was there and witnessed the entire thing.

There is a city ordinance that allows the kids to be arrested and parents fined. They used this in the plaza but I’m not sure if that curfew applies year round or just in the summer months.

I guess if being helpful is discussing improving police presence downtown, sure, I just thought that was as obvious as saying you need to wear a coat outside when it’s cold.

We don’t have enough police to do it. We probably never will again. The police are spread to thin. Millions of dollars a year is spent by property owners hiring off duty to protect their property. Yet this crap can happen a block away and have a devastating impact on business.

I don’t know what happened! You said in your first post they were doing nothing wrong, so I took your word for it.

Curfew depends on where and when. I have no idea. Let’s get some facts here

[DColeKC]

Everyone is talking with no facts. I've checked all the news and there is nothing.

We can't do anything because they're doing nothing illegal but also let's arrest their parents too.

This is all unhelpful complete bs.

We need to have a discussion on how to better police downtown and you all are near the bottom of contributing helpfulness

What facts are we not talking about? I was there and witnessed the entire thing.

There is a city ordinance that allows the kids to be arrested and parents fined. They used this in the plaza but I’m not sure if that curfew applies year round or just in the summer months.

I guess if being helpful is discussing improving police presence downtown, sure, I just thought that was as obvious as saying you need to wear a coat outside when it’s cold.

We don’t have enough police to do it. We probably never will again. The police are spread to thin. Millions of dollars a year is spent by property owners hiring off duty to protect their property. Yet this crap can happen a block away and have a devastating impact on business.

I don’t know what happened! You said in your first post they were doing nothing wrong, so I took your word for it.

Curfew depends on where and when. I have no idea. Let’s get some facts here

Simply gathering isn’t illegal, once the large fight broke out, the shots were fired shortly after. Up until that point I’m not sure they were doing anything that would give the police legal authority to address them. I’m not familiar with curfews and what areas those apply to.

I think anytime we talk about the lack of police presence we have to mention the lack of desire to be a cop. It’s not a budget problem but a lack of worker problem. I’m not sure we will ever get back to the point where the police are a mostly universally respected profession.

Let’s fast pace the technology I’ve been seeing in sci-fi movies since I was a kid! Drones and remotely operated robots!

[DMNBT_RCJH]

I lived in downtown Memphis for four years. The policing of downtown Memphis is night and day better than that of downtown KC. Memphis has similar issues to KC in that the MPD's responsible area is huge (324 square miles vs. Kansas City at 319 square miles), is also fairly racially gerrymandered, and has significant gun violence issues.

The biggest difference: the frequency of patrols (both on foot and in vehicles) and visibility of police operations.

My wife and I went to Odesza on Friday night, and walked from our P&L adjacent apartment through the fall festival and to the T-Mobile entrance and did not see a single police officer except the one at the entrance to T-Mobile. It was eye-opening.

I'm glad to hear there was seemingly a large presence on Saturday prior to the kerfuffle. But they needed to be there earlier, in force, and visible.

Lastly, regarding the officer shortages, I was stunned to see that the starting salary for an officer begins around 48K a year. That's about 12K too low. In addition, the police chief at 180K is also about 25% too low. Money alone cannot fix the perception of police, as DCole alluded to, but it can help on the margins.