KCRag Forum

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:08 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:25 am Yes retail is obviously Cordish strength

It is nationwide. Not to mention 80,000 sqft is just about right for a big retailer.

Fair enough. Where exactly?

I'm all for retail btw. Excited if they can get this going

Could be a Target candidate!

^Exactly what came to my mind too daGoat

80K sqft is on the high end for urban Targets. The smaller stores tend to carry only items that can be carried out assuming no car. With 80K they tend to carry bigger items so may want some parking spots. Or maybe they'd be interested in half of the space, still a good size for urban Target.

I guess I'd prefer a more full-scale Target somewhere along the streetcar in Midtown to a scaled-down one close in to downtown. Obviously, would not want a huge parking lot directly on Main, but there still needs to be a pickup option for larger items. Otherwise, I'd guess neighborhoods around the Plaza and Brookside would continue to use the Ward Parkway location. We need the urban core location to show a lot of traffic to build other retailers wanting to come into the area.

I had a long stay in NYC earlier this year (about 6 weeks) and shopped the ~35K-40K sqft store on 14th E Village once in a while. No car, was able to take everything out using L line subway to Brooklyn. Was a big selection, more than expected. Can't think of anything large that would be needed or can't be ordered to your door. They even sold small TVs that were light and carry out, I think up to 32". Can always go to Northland stores if needing big items or order online.

Does Hall's even make a profit anymore? If Crown Center would shut it down and rent that space to Target, it would allow a bigger Target store and there would be no concern over parking.

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:44 pm Does Hall's even make a profit anymore? If Crown Center would shut it down and rent that space to Target, it would allow a bigger Target store and there would be no concern over parking.

I'd much prefer a local place like Halls over Target. Want to put Target in Crown Center? I'm sure there is more than enough space somewhere else

But which store would attract more customers?

I think we can attract target naturally where I doubt we'll get a halls replacement downtown.

Plus crown center is just so bizarre.

I think if target can partner with a new build where they can get a hidden direct garage entry for big purchases and a street entrance close to the streetcar for walking traffic, that's the best of all worlds.

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:44 pm Does Hall's even make a profit anymore? If Crown Center would shut it down and rent that space to Target, it would allow a bigger Target store and there would be no concern over parking.

Halls on the Plaza was a known moneymaker. I think the fact that the Crown Center store was downsized for a third time, the second time after the two stores were combined, says a lot about how it performs. Saks and Nordstrom don't/didn't do well here for some reason either. I posted in a department store Facebook group a few weeks ago and the former head of VM at the Oak Park Nordstrom said that not only did the store lose money even with the incentives and cheap rent the first 5 years it was open, but it was so bad that corporate started making permanent cuts at the store the first year it was open and that it made corporate rethink opening such large stores in untested waters. He said it was the opposite of Broomfield, CO and downtown Indy where the stores initially boomed and then dipped hard, rather KC started off terribly and then only picked up steam around the time he left and Saks threw in the towel on the plaza. I guess Copaken kept assuring Nordstrom that they were working to bring in more high-end stores to the mall to try and draw out the housewives who were only ever venturing to the mall to visit Dillard's, but they never really followed through on their end of the bargain. Jacobson's also flopped very fast in Leawood near the end of the companies life and I've been told from another reliable source that Von Maur does ok here, but that the KC and St. Louis branches pull in less than Wichita, Des Moines, and Omaha do and that Von Maur isn't exactly happy about what Corbin Park was sold to them as being when they signed on VS what it became. Interestingly enough, when Scheel's opens in Wichita the two stores will now co-anchor five retail developments in; Towne East Square, Corbin Park, Jordan Creek Town Center, South Pointe Pavilions, and Eden Prairie Center.

Von Maur is just 90s Nordstrom-lite down to the piano and has a very similar interior design (the Wichita store especially resembles the Oak Park Nordstrom), so I don't know why they picked JOCO after watching Nordstrom flounder. Anchoring Zona Rosa or Summit Fair would have been better options IMO. They (Von Maur) took over several Jacobson's in some of their better markets up in Michigan, but the Leawood Jacobson's was one of the smallest in the chain and Macy's feels crammed in there. Another reliable tidbit I've been told was that May Department stores originally ran the Leawood Jones Store on a similar tier to the upscale Foley's at Park Meadows and Cherry Creek in Denver and upscale Famous-Barr at the Galleria in St. Louis, but that it didn't last more than 2-3 years because the local populous only utilized the store for its jewelry department and bridal registry.

In a super off-topic bit, I've also been told that the Galleria Nordstom in St. Louis has went from being the mall's top draw five years ago to not performing so hot at all and that's why Nordstrom heavily invested in the West County Store right before COVID. I'm buds with a recently departed leasing agent for Brookfield who handled the three Missouri malls and they were pressured by corporate to move/consolidate several higher-end leases between the Galleria and Plaza Frontenac over to Frontenac (whose Neiman Marcus was spared closure despite being named one of the weakest stores in bankruptcy) and that they were having problems getting stores like Dillard's and even American Eagle to invest in their Galleria locations and that they had no bites on the Galleria end from national chains to fill vacancies left by RH, Papyrus, Janie & Jack, etc. CBL, probably the worst of the four big mall owners, has done a decent job of retaining stores at Oak Park as of late (especially after it lost Swarovski, Yankee Candle, Subway, Banana Republic, Justice, Disney. Foot Action, Lady Foot Locker, and The Walking Company in quick succession) and has filled the old Wet Seal, Gordon's, and Limited stores with decent quality tenants like EntertainMart (Vintage Stock), Tradehome, Versona, and Riddle's.It may be a sad excuse for being our "best mall" compared to similar metros, or even Des Moines, but even some of the stores from rapidly dying brands like Abercrombie were packing them in last weekend at Oak Park!

Subdivide for Target and a 7-11 and you will still have enough space for another small retailer or two.

Halls on the plaza was not a known money maker.

Don't fuck with my Halls! It's the nicest retailer we have in this city and it's a pleasure to shop there. They also have amazing sales.

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:01 am Don't fuck with my Halls! It's the nicest retailer we have in this city and it's a pleasure to shop there. They also have amazing sales.

So true!! - it has saved my professional life many times

Something I've been thinking about- Which project would you rather see go through next?

4 Light
or
Sky on Main

Think if you could only have one up in time for June 2026, which would you pick...

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:29 pm Something I've been thinking about- Which project would you rather see go through next?

4 Light
or
Sky on Main

Think if you could only have one up in time for June 2026, which would you pick...

Do you mean the Sky/Cordish development south of 670? I think Sky on Main is an existing development??

As somebody that was in town walking around that are from a visitors perspective, whatever is planned for those lots south of 670 needs to happen asap. My thoughts on Main through that area:

Walking along Main, the area around the Library District is okay right now. The old transit plaza needs to be developed, but it's not noticeably bad.

The office tower planned on the vacant retail would be nice, but it's not likely to happen now. They should develop a hotel there now or something.
It's wasted space, but again, it's not "noticeably" bad from a pedestrian viewpoint.

The 4 light lot is relatively small compared to the lots south of 670. However I believe the building planned there will be quite significant and include a hotel which downtown desperately needs.

But if I had to choose, I would go with the development south of 670. The parking lots, the auto shop etc is just a bad look from such a high profile intersection fronting the 670 park.

Agreed.

I would pick the Sky/Cordish project over 4L

I’d pick 4 light, assuming it is built on the main street theater surface lot. The back of the theater is looking really out of place now that everything around it is developed