Arena in OP, No tax breaks?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:03 am

If OP ever goes through with an arena, they shouldn't make it compete with downtown KC's planned one. We cannot have the suburbs taking basketball, hockey, conventions, etc... from downtown.

COMMENTARY
Will arena go without tax break?
RICK BABSON

Overland Park leaders want an arena, and they want it badly. The big question is, â€œHow badly?â€

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:44 am

Devin...I wouldn't worry about a 7,000 seat arena competing for what a new downtown arena will hold.

Sure they might get an AHL team or something....

BTW, didn't OP learn anything from that white elephant of a convention center?

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:25 pm

I don't see anything wrong with OP building a 7,000 seat arena. It's not like they will take away professional teams from a downtown arena. But I agree, why let Olathe build an arena if OP can build one first? Many major cities have large arenas in the core and smaller venues in the burbs.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:10 pm

I don't even know why they are bothering with a 7,000 seat arena. That is very small even if it is for a suburban city. To put it in perspective, Allen Fieldhouse, which is just a big gym, can hold over 16,000. I would not not want a big NBA-caliber arena in OP, but I would rather have them build something capable of holding 10,000 seats.

I hope OP beats Olathe too.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:22 pm

but my point is, that OP is just a suburb, it's not going to be a major city. sure it may become 300k people in 40 years, but by then, KC proper would have 600k or even 700k people. Personally I don't want to see a Clayton appearing in our metro. And I don't want to see any Fortune 500 companies going to OP or any other surburb. They are trying to make their city grow, I understand that, but they shouldn't try to become a Wichita, Omaha, Oklahoma City, or Des Moines. Besides that, they shouldn't even be a Clayton and I hope, won't ever be. Instead of building at stupid arena, add 7,000 more seats to the downtown arena, the purpose of the downtown arena is to DRAW people TO downtown, you can't do that when you have people happy just with their tiny arena.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:48 pm

So OP and Olathe donâ€™t have money for bistate because â€œthe schools need to be dealt with firstâ€

GuyInLenexa · Post by **GuyInLenexa** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:49 pm

OPK is trying to secure their future and tax base. The proposed arena near Sprint is not meant to "compete" with the proposed DT arena, not even Kemper.
However, KCMO could be competed with if JOCO tries to build an arena.
Even more the reason that KCMO should expedite the building of the new arena ASAP.
The suburbs should not live for the primary benefit of the central city, the central city should not do the same for the suburbs.
Both must cooperate.
Do a root analysis of businesses that many on this forum said JOCO "stole" from KCMO. You will see it was totally business not combating municipalities that lead them to their decision.
I really doubt that OPK would want a large arena, they do not have the need with it. It could allow Greater KC to have multiple concerts, events, and conventions at the same time.
Devin, sometimes your comments against the suburbs have a hint of bitterness and making KCMO look like a victim. I assure you it is not. KCMO is doing quite well and no entity in JOCO or wherever is trying to do stifle the progress being made..... That ball that is rolling and it won't stop.
We are not at war with each other, Devin.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:00 pm

Well it sure seems like we are, JOCO offers stupid tax incentives, won't sign a Bistate Cooperative thing. They propose things they don't need like an arena or convention center. I mean it isn't right when the suburbs are "hotter" or more "active" than the city itself.
I do not want this happening to Kansas City:
http://www.pbase.com/image/25209920/original.jpg

GuyInLenexa · Post by **GuyInLenexa** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:11 pm

I am not sure what city your picture is of, I am assuming Clayton MO?
OPK already looks nicer than that, not as dense, but I don't think OPK wants to have a "dense" business development.
Perhaps I am in the dark, I did not live here all my life, please enlightnen me. When did JOCO refuse to sign an agreement on businesses moving from state to state? Was the proposal drawn up by MO and KS or was it the county or city governments? What was the reason given at the time?
Don't forget, Missouri has business incentives also, as they should.
I have to agree that there should not be corporate welfare for businesses moving across the street on State Line Road. Most employees of these businesses will stay where they are and just commute. Either side of the state line really profits from it, except the businesses themselves.
Kansas is making fervant efforts to import new businesses. I am happy that they are.

KCforumer · Post by **KCforumer** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:28 pm

You say OP looks nicer than Clayton, but have you ever seen Clayton, other than in the photo above?

I think Clayton looks nicer--much nicer.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:33 pm

KCDevin wrote:but my point is, that OP is just a suburb, it's not going to be a major city. sure it may become 300k people in 40 years, but by then, KC proper would have 600k or even 700k people. Personally I don't want to see a Clayton appearing in our metro. And I don't want to see any Fortune 500 companies going to OP or any other surburb. They are trying to make their city grow, I understand that, but they shouldn't try to become a Wichita, Omaha, Oklahoma City, or Des Moines. Besides that, they shouldn't even be a Clayton and I hope, won't ever be. Instead of building at stupid arena, add 7,000 more seats to the downtown arena, the purpose of the downtown arena is to DRAW people TO downtown, you can't do that when you have people happy just with their tiny arena.

Devin, get out of Excelsior Springs and travel more. Why wouldn't a city such as Overland Park (currently ranked 4th Best Large Town/Small City to Live in America) not want to remain on top and continue to grow? You mention Clayton, but look at other suburban cities like Naperville (Chicago burb) or Irving (Dallas burb). These towns want to take care of themselves to, you know! We shouldn't even be talkin' about Clayton, only 13,000 peeps live there....OP has about 152,000.

If OP wants to remain a competative suburb, they need a small arena for large business conferences, concerts of all types (musical and religion), small animal and livestock shows, family entertainment shows, major youth hockey tournaments and KC Explorers (team tennis). The arena will be reserved for smaller events that would normally leave thousands of empty seats at Kemper (or a new downtown arena).

It actually costs Kemper users more money to host an arena-type event that only draws 5,000 because they have to pay additional for arena lighting, arena employees, concessions/clean-up, etc. Bottom line, the KC metro needs a small arena because we are losing small events that require one.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:40 pm

I just don't think it's right for OP to be drawing people more than Kansas City, well, percentage wise. OP can grow, just not at KCMO's expense.
Oh, BTW, I will get out alot more once I turn 16 this year

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:49 pm

KCDevin wrote:I just don't think it's right for OP to be drawing people more than Kansas City, well, percentage wise. OP can grow, just not at KCMO's expense.
Oh, BTW, I will get out alot more once I turn 16 this year

I don't know the statistics, but isn't some other suburban cities on the Missouri side growing faster than KCMO (percentage wise) as well? Without OP, who is to say that these people would even move to the Kansas City metro? Like I said a while back, I seen an advertisement on late night television in Tampa, Florida promoting Overland Park as one of the best places to live and raise a family in the United States. They also showed the many nearby entertainment and cultural attractions in KCMO.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:56 pm

hmm, sounds alot like KC when we had 300k people. I just wouldn't want one thing in OP making it surpass KC like we did with the Hannibal Bridge and passed Independence & St. Joe forever... But I'm positive that won't happen.

Post by **bahua** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:28 pm

Dammit Devin! When the picture is too big to display, link it!

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:41 pm

??? thats even small enough for dialup isn't it?

The Summit · Post by **The Summit** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:57 pm

Devin, this is anoying reading a thread and having to scroll back and forth, that's what bahua was saying.

KC is not big enough to have super suburbs like Chicago and Dallas do. StL has a million more people and they don't have anything even close to OP. Even Clayton, (which is more like the Plaza than a suburb) probably has less sq ft of office space than OP.

From what I can tell, OP and the kansas side in general has basically evolved only due to being across a state line from an aging, urban city.

If the StL area had a road instead of a river between MO & IL, you can bet there would be massive sprawling suburbs on the south side of EStL much like JoCo did to the south of KCK. Those burbs, like JO County would be free from all the taxes and upkeep that the city of StL and StL County have to deal with. No school deseg problems, no stadium or zoo tax etc, just lots of cheap and easily developable land closer to the city than places like St Charles and Chesterfield. Then those places could offer tax breaks and the lure of new homes and schools and lower taxes (or at least taxes that stay in that area) to lure residents and businesses from the MO to IL. The IL side people eventually think they are better than the MO side just because they have better roads. After thirty years of this type of development, the MO side of StL begins to hate the IL side.

Is this about right?

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:01 pm

STL only has about 400-600k more people in their metro than us... (not meant to be rude)

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:03 pm

I don't care about the pic, but IT IS a pic. of an StL suburb in the Kansas Suburbs forum of the board!!!

KC has mamajama sized 'burbs in general...Independence, Olathe, OP, Lee's Summit, and KCK(not a 'burb in my opinion) and these places are not done growing to say the least. When you look at the amount of land Olathe and Lenexa have to the west, Lee's Summit has on every side, and OP's southern manifest destiny...they will only get chunkier on the metro maps.

KCforumer · Post by **KCforumer** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:10 pm

KCDevin wrote:STL only has about 400-600k more people in their metro than us... (not meant to be rude)

Devin, where do you get your facts? Fantasy world? Metro STL has more than 800,000 more people than the metro KC. Like Jive always says, that's roughly 1 Omaha metro in difference.