KCRag Forum

TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:46 pm The argument for local control should have little to do with crime rate. Police should be accountable to the people that they police, not one man living halfway across the state.

So, the affect this has on crime, good or bad, shouldn’t be a determinant?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:16 pm

TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:46 pm The argument for local control should have little to do with crime rate. Police should be accountable to the people that they police, not one man living halfway across the state.

So, the affect this has on crime, good or bad, shouldn’t be a determinant?

Correct. If we had zero crime I would still want local control. No other major city in the US has to deal with this.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:50 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:16 pm

TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:46 pm The argument for local control should have little to do with crime rate. Police should be accountable to the people that they police, not one man living halfway across the state.

So, the affect this has on crime, good or bad, shouldn’t be a determinant?

Correct. If we had zero crime I would still want local control. No other major city in the US has to deal with this.

Right. The origin of state control of the police force was corruption that happened mid last century. It had nothing to do with how effective the police department was or wasn't other than the fact that corruption is always bad. That has not been an issue for most of the last century, but in the interim, other excuses for placing the control of the police with the state have been created to extend that control. And again, those arguing for control are the very people that are first to scream about government overreach and even question the FBI's jurisdiction in their state.

Highlander wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:14 pm

shinatoo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:50 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:16 pm
So, the affect this has on crime, good or bad, shouldn’t be a determinant?

Correct. If we had zero crime I would still want local control. No other major city in the US has to deal with this.

Right. The origin of state control of the police force was corruption that happened mid last century. It had nothing to do with how effective the police department was or wasn't other than the fact that corruption is always bad. That has not been an issue for most of the last century, but in the interim, other excuses for placing the control of the police with the state have been created to extend that control. And again, those arguing for control are the very people that are first to scream about government overreach and even question the FBI's jurisdiction in their state.

Also, our crime rate isn't zero. It horrible under state control.

If Kansas City got local control of it's police board and then crime rate increased, that would be a lesson for Kansas Citians to learn from and correct by electing the appropriate people. Not a state appointed board.

KC_Ari wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:08 pm If Kansas City got local control of it's police board and then crime rate increased, that would be a lesson for Kansas Citians to learn from and correct by electing the appropriate people. Not a state appointed board.

I’d agree with that though I don’t really think it would happen. People wouldn’t say, “Crime was lower under a Republican board, so let’s vote Republicans in for the council and mayor.” And, of course, vice versa. I just don’t know if people vote for practicality anymore. They’ll vote based on a stupid social signal or how they perceive themselves or friend group. People vote against their best interests all. the. time. unfortunately.

It's been under state control for more than 80 years. KC is now the only city in the USA under state control. There isn't any justification for KCPD being under state control. Kansas City's elected leadership has no say about hiring or firing the police chief, how the police leadership sets policy, or how the police budget is allocated. The police department isn't responsive to Kansas City's citizens via their elected council like all other departments are.

One can't say that KC is any safer under state control than it might be if the KCPD answered to the Mayor or Council. At least under City control, citizens could vote out a mayor or council when they didn't feel the police department was serving the public interest, or behaving in a incompetent or non-responsive manner.

KC_Ari wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:08 pm If Kansas City got local control of it's police board and then crime rate increased, that would be a lesson for Kansas Citians to learn from and correct by electing the appropriate people. Not a state appointed board.

You think they would learn? They re-elected Bunch FFS

Realistically, can anything be done to wrest control back, or is the GOP control too overpowering and they’ll be resistant to any small, local government argument because they’re without principles and just looking to kill own the libs?

bricknose wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:25 am Realistically, can anything be done to wrest control back, or is the GOP control too overpowering and they’ll be resistant to any small, local government argument because they’re without principles and just looking to kill own the libs?

Related, how did St. Louis manage to do it not too long ago?

grovester wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:51 am

bricknose wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:25 am Realistically, can anything be done to wrest control back, or is the GOP control too overpowering and they’ll be resistant to any small, local government argument because they’re without principles and just looking to kill own the libs?

Related, how did St. Louis manage to do it not too long ago?

Statewide ballot initiative about a decade ago. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... lice-force

Police and police funding is way more politicized now, so I'm not sure we'd have the same result. Not to mention Jefferson City has been floating bills to take back STL PD under state control. The courts are really the only viable path I see at the moment for KCMO.

Maybe in a decade or so (if politics change) we could follow the STL model, but that requires a lot of work and money state-wide to even get on the ballot.

Some salary increases in the budget this year

Fully funds Kansas City Police Department personnel and includes funding for 150 new recruits at higher starting salaries.
Pay raises for all police officers, and a $15,000 (30 percent) increase in starting salaries from $50,000 up to $65,000 to remain competitive in the region at recruiting top public safety professionals.
A KCPD hiring and retention incentive of $2,500 per employee program to recruit and retain positions the department is finding difficult to hire, including 911 call takers.

It wouldn't pass anyway and if you think having someone like Eric Bunch in control would make a huge difference well you're wrong

Metro wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:06 am It wouldn't pass anyway and if you think having someone like Eric Bunch in control would make a huge difference well you're wrong

I'm not sure if I understand. The City Council, including Bunch, approved the KCPD funding as part of the 2024-2025 fiscal budget.

There is a chance the MO Supreme Court will rule that the state oversight is unconstitutional somehow.

I'm on an east coast trip. The 4 wheeler antics happen even here on streets that are 22' wide and have pedestrian enhancements. I'm convinced the only thing that can stop these are police enforcement. Cars going fast on the other hand do seem to respond well here to curb bumps and other traffic calming measures. In New York, we saw many cheap and easy bump outs made of planters or stone blocks.

Some of the boulders are flat on top and make for a nice bench



another

What I don't understand is it's not like the police aren't arresting criminals because they are. How often are these people released back into the streets within days committing crime?

It's very telling the mayor and council will touch on a wide range of issues from abortion to Palestine but when it comes to the DA releasing violent criminals back onto the street... Crickets.


KC has a huge problem with it's elected officials and lack of leadership

Metro wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:04 am What I don't understand is it's not like the police aren't arresting criminals because they are. How often are these people released back into the streets within days committing crime?

It's very telling the mayor and council will touch on a wide range of issues from abortion to Palestine but when it comes to the DA releasing violent criminals back onto the street... Crickets.


KC has a huge problem with it's elected officials and lack of leadership

Released from where? They're not even being put into jail. Just names and dates of birth collected for citations, referred for charges, and the cops move on to the next call. There's only about 1/3 of the allotted Police department positions filled right now. Try going to a station to submit a report right now. They'll literally have to send a cop from the field to come back to the station to do a report, because there are no cops at the police stations right now. That's how bad it's gotten. You could literally have a gunfight right outside of a police department and no one would respond