KCRag Forum

Also a lot easier to corral a train in, you can't just hop on any track & transfer over. Nothing like a plane freely flying in any direction.

I don't want to be naive, but sabotaging a train track seems like it would be very inconvenient and annoying for passengers and do some minimal economic damage for trips not taken/business not completed, but I think that's about it.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:12 pm Was reading about the bright line project and I know nothing about high speed rail.

How safe is it?

How do they prevent attacks? For example, only way to utilize a plane for an attack is to hijack it or plant something on it.

Wouldn’t the entire rail system be much easier to plant a device on? Have other countries suffered any attacks on high speed rail?

In some places you have to go through metal detectors (Eurostar, Brightline and the Spanish highspeed network being a few examples), but the great thing about trains is that so much of the inconvenience of air travel is removed. I want people to be safe, but also suggest we should be careful about rebuilding the airport security apparatus around train travel when, anecdotally observing other countries, safety doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

smh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:53 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:12 pm Was reading about the bright line project and I know nothing about high speed rail.

How safe is it?

How do they prevent attacks? For example, only way to utilize a plane for an attack is to hijack it or plant something on it.

Wouldn’t the entire rail system be much easier to plant a device on? Have other countries suffered any attacks on high speed rail?

In some places you have to go through metal detectors (Eurostar, Brightline and the Spanish highspeed network being a few examples), but the great thing about trains is that so much of the inconvenience of air travel is removed. I want people to be safe, but also suggest we should be careful about rebuilding the airport security apparatus around train travel when, anecdotally observing other countries, safety doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

And it’s also well established that airport style security doesn’t do a good job of actually stopping anything

langosta wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:57 am

smh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:53 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:12 pm Was reading about the bright line project and I know nothing about high speed rail.

How safe is it?

How do they prevent attacks? For example, only way to utilize a plane for an attack is to hijack it or plant something on it.

Wouldn’t the entire rail system be much easier to plant a device on? Have other countries suffered any attacks on high speed rail?

In some places you have to go through metal detectors (Eurostar, Brightline and the Spanish highspeed network being a few examples), but the great thing about trains is that so much of the inconvenience of air travel is removed. I want people to be safe, but also suggest we should be careful about rebuilding the airport security apparatus around train travel when, anecdotally observing other countries, safety doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

And it’s also well established that airport style security doesn’t do a good job of actually stopping anything

This

Any reasonably smart terrorist will just blow up the central security areas anyways.. since they're unsecured and dense.

im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 11:19 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:57 am

smh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:53 am

In some places you have to go through metal detectors (Eurostar, Brightline and the Spanish highspeed network being a few examples), but the great thing about trains is that so much of the inconvenience of air travel is removed. I want people to be safe, but also suggest we should be careful about rebuilding the airport security apparatus around train travel when, anecdotally observing other countries, safety doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

And it’s also well established that airport style security doesn’t do a good job of actually stopping anything

This

Any reasonably smart terrorist will just blow up the central security areas anyways.. since they're unsecured and dense.

TSA fails 95% of Dept. Homeland Security tests

https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tes ... d=51022188

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/ ... t-security

smh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:51 am I don't want to be naive, but sabotaging a train track seems like it would be very inconvenient and annoying for passengers and do some minimal economic damage for trips not taken/business not completed, but I think that's about it.

With thousands of miles just out in the open, unsecured, it seems to me that placing a device on a high speed rail section and detonating right before the train encounters this section would cause extreme damage. I just see airline travel as safer from those types of threats as long as you can ensure nothing is brought on board.

I've never experienced high speed rail, so the concept is so foreign to me that I'm for sure overthinking this but seems like a valid concern. A quick google search lead me to a study conducted back in 2013 by the Mineta Transportation Institute about securing high speed rail in the United States. I'll give that a read later.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:44 am

smh wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 9:51 am I don't want to be naive, but sabotaging a train track seems like it would be very inconvenient and annoying for passengers and do some minimal economic damage for trips not taken/business not completed, but I think that's about it.

With thousands of miles just out in the open, unsecured, it seems to me that placing a device on a high speed rail section and detonating right before the train encounters this section would cause extreme damage. I just see airline travel as safer from those types of threats as long as you can ensure nothing is brought on board.

I've never experienced high speed rail, so the concept is so foreign to me that I'm for sure overthinking this but seems like a valid concern. A quick google search lead me to a study conducted back in 2013 by the Mineta Transportation Institute about securing high speed rail in the United States. I'll give that a read later.

I mean, that’s an assumed risk, the same as a highway… you can’t secure a system into 100% safety.

True high speed rail corridors in the US have to be "sealed" -- protected by fencing with no at-grade crossings. Only Amtrak's NEC meets that threshold. Only the newest segment of Brightline is fast enough (125mph) to require that.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... operation/

There is increased security -- but nothing like an airport -- at stations that serve these routes (basically Amtrak cops, dogs, cameras). Brightline notably differs from Amtrak in that they require enhanced screening (metal detectors) at all stations on the Florida line. That step is not mandated and is more about appealing to those familiar with air travel.

At low volume, low speed stations like KCY there is no security other than unarmed Amtrak staffers. You're more likely to be injured at a grade crossing for those routes. A shockingly frequent occurrence!