Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

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GRID
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Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby GRID » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:26 pm

So, I was in KC this past week and I always enjoy my time there. I literally drove around and checked out every single project that is under construction or recently completed lol.

One thing that still bugs me though. What is the point of closing Grand in front of Sprint Center? I just feel that really takes away from the vibrancy and sort of disconnects downtown from the rest of the city. It actually makes downtown feel less active, not more active. I can see blocking it off right when a major event lets out for 30 minutes or so, but just blocking off the entire street for hours or even days when there is hardly anybody downtown just messes up the vibe of an urban area IMO. It's too wide of a street to just shut down. That's what they do for Capital One arena in DC. They close streets just long enough for the mass exit of the arena, probably 15-30 minutes and then they open them back up and the sidewalks and streets are all full again. Bustling city.

Maybe it's just me, but that's my opinion. Keep Grand open.

So anyway. I thought this was a cool shot of the One and Two light towers.

Image

While I totally support the future towers, I do think the future Cordish towers and the Loews Hotel will drastically change the aesthetics of the downtown skyline from nearly all viewpoints form the south. Two light actually looks great, but Three and Four Light will block the view of many other building rather than enhance or compliment other buildings. But the towers are good for the city. You will just have to get some elevation to get decent skylines photos, which I'm fine with.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 pm

Great angle on that shot grid.

I agree they close grand too much....it's for a good cause (ped safety) so it's hard to complain too much but it is frustrsting.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby GRID » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:06 pm

KCPowercat wrote:Great angle on that shot grid.

I agree they close grand too much....it's for a good cause (ped safety) so it's hard to complain too much but it is frustrsting.


They really need to paint a very wide crosswalk with signals between Sprint Center and P&L. That's all they need. Grand is not a very busy street, but it's an important street to the downtown grid. I just like urban bustle and closing grand just makes the core of downtown feel dead IMO, even when sprint center is in use.

I will say it's impressive to see just how much residential is happening downtown and really the entire River to Plaza corridor. If KC's jobs were not so suburban oriented, KCMO could easily be rivaling cities like Denver and Minneapolis today. I hope Cerner or others reconsider their avoidance of downtown or I just wonder how sustainable all that residential development is going to be. That's a lot of new units for a city with so few downtown jobs. These companies have got to be noticing and starting to figure out that they are missing out.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby WoodDraw » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:16 pm

I do agree that they close it too much, but there are some events where Sprint Center security and P&L just create a pedestrian security issue that can't be handled without closing it.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby chingon » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:08 pm

GRID wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Great angle on that shot grid.

I agree they close grand too much....it's for a good cause (ped safety) so it's hard to complain too much but it is frustrsting.


They really need to paint a very wide crosswalk with signals between Sprint Center and P&L. That's all they need. Grand is not a very busy street, but it's an important street to the downtown grid. I just like urban bustle and closing grand just makes the core of downtown feel dead IMO, even when sprint center is in use.

I will say it's impressive to see just how much residential is happening downtown and really the entire River to Plaza corridor. If KC's jobs were not so suburban oriented, KCMO could easily be rivaling cities like Denver and Minneapolis today. I hope Cerner or others reconsider their avoidance of downtown or I just wonder how sustainable all that residential development is going to be. That's a lot of new units for a city with so few downtown jobs. These companies have got to be noticing and starting to figure out that they are missing out.


The jobs thing is a huge missing part of the puzzle. Maybe the last on left. But it’s also a really sticky problem, and the Cerner debacle was a generational waste.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby grecobs » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:30 am

Why not close grand full time, make it a pedestrian plaza with food trucks, seating and green space?

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KC_JAYHAWK » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:40 am

Is it just the weekends or weekdays also? I guess I have never noticed it, except during the Big 12 tournament.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby Eon Blue » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:37 am

It can happen on weekdays, too.

It gets really stupid when Walnut is closed, too. They did that during the Big 12 tournament.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:03 pm

Horrible idea that causes unnecessary bus reroutes....our major streets aren't meant for parties first.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:29 pm

As a member of the urban community I think these events are fine bit not the lifeblood of our neighborhood...and we have plenty of open spaces for them....grand doesn't need to be closed to hold them

Yes rerouting buses that run every 15 on a Saturday is unnecessary. It adds time to the route and confuses riders.

Think bigger than what your company cares about.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby Eon Blue » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:42 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Horrible idea that causes unnecessary bus reroutes....our major streets aren't meant for parties first.


Unnecessary bus reroutes? On a Saturday?

Thankfully the city leaders understand how important community events like Irishfest, Beerfest, Pig and Swig, Family Fun Days, Fiesta, and many others are to an urban community. I think that's worth the bus route needing to go one block out of it's way.

As someone who commutes daily via a bus route that uses Grand, I am keenly aware of how many weekdays Grand is closed. Those are more disruptive than a few weekend festivals.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:55 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:As a member of the urban community I think these events are fine bit not the lifeblood of our neighborhood...and we have plenty of open spaces for them....grand doesn't need to be closed to hold them

Yes rerouting buses that run every 15 on a Saturday is unnecessary. It adds time to the route and confuses riders.

Think bigger than what your company cares about.


I've been a downtown resident for 10+ years. I don't think strictly in the best interest of my company.

Please tell me where there's open space for 30 BBQ vendors, 10 Bourbon vendors and 1500 guests? What about dozens of inflatables, food vendors, games and entertainment for a few thousand families? Within the Power and Light District? I'll wait..................................

We feel it's smarter to move away from closing walnut and 14th at the same time for so many events when we can utilize Grand. Walnut is busier and has access to more parking than Grand between 13th and 14th.

There's no bus stops between 13th and 14th on Grand. It's no inconvenience to a bus rider, get picked up at the stop at 13th and Grand, the bus takes a right on 13th, a left on walnut and a left on S. Truman and they're back on Grand without missing any stops. I think that 3-5 minutes of additional time is worth the trade offs. Grand is not a busy street on most Saturdays unless there is a event downtown. In those cases, people can still easily get to parking garages with minimal issues.

I certainly understand that some people find closing Grand to be annoying, but several thousand people attend these events every year. We think it's worth it. We also understand you'll never make everyone happy.


Why are we defining it has to be in p&l? If this is good for the urban community then let's hold these events where we have the space now downtown...

That's not even the reroute buses take. At least if we are going to discuss it can we get up to speed on the facts?

This seems like something parking and transportation commission should look into. Grand is being closed a lot already...more closures isn't good. We will get it on their agenda.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:23 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:As a member of the urban community I think these events are fine bit not the lifeblood of our neighborhood...and we have plenty of open spaces for them....grand doesn't need to be closed to hold them

Yes rerouting buses that run every 15 on a Saturday is unnecessary. It adds time to the route and confuses riders.

Think bigger than what your company cares about.


I've been a downtown resident for 10+ years. I don't think strictly in the best interest of my company.

Please tell me where there's open space for 30 BBQ vendors, 10 Bourbon vendors and 1500 guests? What about dozens of inflatables, food vendors, games and entertainment for a few thousand families? Within the Power and Light District? I'll wait..................................

We feel it's smarter to move away from closing walnut and 14th at the same time for so many events when we can utilize Grand. Walnut is busier and has access to more parking than Grand between 13th and 14th.

There's no bus stops between 13th and 14th on Grand. It's no inconvenience to a bus rider, get picked up at the stop at 13th and Grand, the bus takes a right on 13th, a left on walnut and a left on S. Truman and they're back on Grand without missing any stops. I think that 3-5 minutes of additional time is worth the trade offs. Grand is not a busy street on most Saturdays unless there is a event downtown. In those cases, people can still easily get to parking garages with minimal issues.

I certainly understand that some people find closing Grand to be annoying, but several thousand people attend these events every year. We think it's worth it. We also understand you'll never make everyone happy.


Why are we defining it has to be in p&l? If this is good for the urban community then let's hold these events where we have the space now downtown...

That's not even the reroute buses take. At least if we are going to discuss it can we get up to speed on the facts?

This seems like something parking and transportation commission should look into. Grand is being closed a lot already...more closures isn't good. We will get it on their agenda.


Because it is a Cordish event? This seems like a conflict that would quickly be resolved with the capping of i670

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:32 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
Why are we defining it has to be in p&l? If this is good for the urban community then let's hold these events where we have the space now downtown...

That's not even the reroute buses take. At least if we are going to discuss it can we get up to speed on the facts?

This seems like something parking and transportation commission should look into. Grand is being closed a lot already...more closures isn't good. We will get it on their agenda.


Well, because the P&L district is paying for it, why would we pay to host an event in the crossroads? We do these events to encourage people to come down to the district and drive traffic for the tenants.

It's not like we just close grand when we want to, we attend the city meetings about these things, like the one I was at this morning.

I apologize for not being an expert on the bus routes, I don't use them. I just assumed a bus heading south on Grand would need to take a right at 13th after hitting that pickup since left isn't an option.

Speaking of the parking and transportation commission, I just noticed there's no one on that commission that specifically represents the Power and Light District. I suppose if y'all are going to talk about something that can have an impact on the district, we should have someone on the commission.


Understand the thought of driving traffic.... Hold it inside that huge covered space....hold it on the roof park. Hold it on an empty surface lot (3 light, main Street theater lot Sounds like a great idea for the cap. It's a very poor idea to close a major street.

Nobody is asking for you to be an expert but if you are going to defend closing streets for parties and saying the reroute is no big deal if think you would know what the reroute actually was.

When I said "we" I didn't mean to suggest I am on PTC as I'm not. I'm sure if they do discuss the closings the impacted parties would be contacted to discuss.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:42 pm

Festival in asphalt parking lot surrounded by buildings...bad!
Festival on asphalt street surrounded by buildings....awesome!

Got it.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby flyingember » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:47 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
Please tell me where there's open space for 30 BBQ vendors, 10 Bourbon vendors and 1500 guests? What about dozens of inflatables, food vendors, games and entertainment for a few thousand families? Within the Power and Light District? I'll wait..................................


Just using street row of Grand, 12th to Truman is 1.06 acres

The plaza art fair easily fits 50,000 people and 275+ vendors, several hundred people worth of tables and chairs and multiple music stages in a space of 6 acres.

Compared to 1500 guests that's 33x the number of people in 6x the space

You would be fine to host an event of a couple thousand on the east side of the sprint center on a more regular basis.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:55 pm

Okay. I give up. No desire to hear other opinions or impacts to neighbors.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:19 pm

@strangerthings

My understanding of the situation is as follows. Cordish closes off a section of grand in non busy Saturdays a handful of times a year. Sprint Center closes this same section of grand fairly often on varying times and dates. The Cordish blockages are due to “festivals” and “events” while the sprint ones are to just allow safe passage. The people on this board are complaining about Grand being closed often but are blaming you/Cordish instead of Sprint Center who is the one really doing most of the closing. Is this correct?

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby GRID » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:31 pm

Well, I will say this. My wife wanted to run into RallyHouse about 30 minutes before they closed and she couldn't figure out how to get anywhere near it and gave up due to all the road closings. There was some event at the sprint center, Disney on Ice? But the roads in the P&L district like grand and 13th were pretty much empty of any activity at all. While I probably would have figured it out by parking further away or finding a garage, it was frustrating for her. I would guess that most suburbanites and tourists that visit downtown would be in the same situation. If there were not going to an event at the sprint center, the road closings would actually drive them away from the P&L district or they would never really find it in the first place.

Cordish might reconsider just how much and how often Grand is closed. It's kind of the front door to the P&L district for people visiting the area. I can see closing it once in a while for an art festival or something that fills the entire street with vendors etc on a Saturday a few times a year, but to close it for many hours every time Sprint Center is in use is just silly. Get some cops out there to help the masses cross the street when sprint center lets out, but after that open things up and let downtown be downtown.

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Re: Closing Grand all the time is stupid.

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:20 pm

It's not closed for every Sprint center event.


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