KCRag Forum

KC has very few very tall buildings( by which I meant at least 400 Feet). There was a spate of classic towers in the thirties with the last being city hall
in 1935. Then there was an immutable drought for thirty years until Commerce Tower in 1965. Them cc Sqaure in 1976 and then Town PAvilion in 1986, KC PLace a year later and rounding up was 1201 Walnut in 1990. It is now 28 years with a moribound skyline. Only 2 years before the past depression 30 year drought is surpassedl Any ideas if something will happen in the next few years?. DT needs a mixed use community skyscraper a new tallest of at lest 700 feet to approach peer cities of Denver, , Mnpls, and Indy. Cincinnti 80 years to erect a new tallest,and we may be headed that way. Tall buildings are not the measure of vital dynAmic cities, but they are the visual monumets to the vigor and dynamism of a city.Iconoc design that are unique and beautiful become symbols of the city

One new one might be nice but I'm more excited seeing a bunch of filler buildings getting rid of surface lots.

HnR Blocks tower is nice, wish it was a little taller, but it's 17 floors I think. I agree with KCP, one new tall building on the lot north of the Sprint Center would be nice, even if it's 30 stories. The rest of downtown, I would prefer infill projects to get rid of the surface lots. All the Light residential towers are going to make a big difference in the downtown skyline, along with the new Lowes hotel.

I’d rather have 10 new 4-story buildings than one 40-story building.

I think we're missing the forest for the trees.

There's parts of town that should be only taller buildings. Along the streetcar line and expansion corridors should be zoned to allow only dense and tall. Like 10+ stories.

But I would love to see 10 4-story buildings right now more. There's a number of taller buildings going up already so not having the 400 ft + buildings right now isn't a big deal

The big hole in KC development is in the first 10 or 20 blocks outside of downtown where building a number of 6 and 12 plex multi unit buildings as affordable + market rate infill within reach of a short streetcar expansion and the existing bus lines would be a huge deal

Put them right at the street, alley behind with detached garages, shared green space for all with small gardens, playgrounds and such to build community. Every other one put a small café or shop space at ground level with exterior access. At major intersections build bigger with full ground floor retail space.

Sure, density is better than height, but come on, the reason KC is not seeing more towers is because of the lack of any interest what so ever by the regional business community. KC is getting a good share of low rise residential infill now, although even that may be short lived due to the lack of downtown jobs.

There are very few cities that have built less downtown office space over the past few decades than KC and KC has probably taken more office space off the market (conversion to residential etc) than most other cities too.

I love KC's skyline. Regardless of the lack of new towers, the Downtown area has changed dramatically and KC has one of the most interesting skylines in the country IMO. Not too long ago, Downtown KC was nothing but a few office towers. The rest was parking lots and underutilized buildings and empty lots.

But KC people have to keep beating what has become a dead horse as of late. KC's downtown doesn't necessarily need more skyscrapers, but is sure does need more companies committed to the area and more jobs and that typically means more skyscrapers. It's pretty sad that it looks like the best case scenario is a new smallish 250,000 sq ft building in the next ten years. That's just not going to sustain the residential growth that people want.

So yea. KC needs more towers. Problem is, nearly all (like 99.9%) office space in metro KC still goes up in the burbs. Till that changes, you won't be seeing 40 story residential towers either and current momentum will soon drastically slow. There are only so many people that are going to live in the city and commute to suburban jobs and KC is probably already reaching that number. I'm still extremely surprised that more regional companies have not seen the light downtown, you would think more would want to be a part of it.

The corporations that call KC "home" like Sprint and Cerner (and many others) could care less about this city.
They would slit their mom's throat for 2 cents saved on tax incentives and parking.

The state line and Kansass has only perpetuated the stereotypes and hatred for downtown KCMO.
While I'm glad they stayed in KCMO, I have no love for those companies that moved to the Plaza either.
And the local commercial RE developers are inept hags with no vision or ability to sell a downtown location.
(That's right Copaken and others - you're inept bitches)

Frozen tundra shitholes like Cleveland, Detroit and Milwaukee have better corporate citizens.

^ Right. It's not like KC is trying to keep up with Minneapolis, or Denver or Seattle or Charlotte or even Nashville now. It's the cities you mentioned, plus Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati etc as well, not to mention smaller cities like Des Moines, Omaha, OKC etc. KC is a better city than most of these other places, but the lack of interest in downtown KC by the corporate community is mind boggling. Meanwhile, you have spec office space going up at 159th Metcalf? Cerner is building a 4 millions sq ft campus and companies are still jumping from one side of state line to the other in the 435 corridor.

Again, I hope people don't think I'm being a downer. I think people in KC should be excited about all the development that's happening, but at the same time, I hope they realize that every city in the country is doing at least as much as KC is doing as far as residential, but I'm not sure there is another example of a city that has struggled as much as KC when it comes to downtown corporate investment. Maybe St Louis I guess, but then they have Clayton which has seen a lot more action than Downtown KC/Plaza.

I just hope the mayor and others in KC keep this topic hot. KC companies have to be listening.

Eon Blue wrote:I’d rather have 10 new 4-story buildings than one 40-story building.

^^ what he said.

Measuring against what every other city is doing will never end well.

We need to grow our economy with diverse industries and keep up with demands of people wanting to move here with amenities and affordable housing options....looking over our shoulder at what Nashville is doing isnt going to do much except make us trip.

I gave up city dick measuring long ago.

AlbertHammond wrote:

Eon Blue wrote:I’d rather have 10 new 4-story buildings than one 40-story building.

^^ what he said.

Totally missed the point. As far as new office towers, KC is not getting anything (other than the little annex to the Corrigan building). KC is not getting ten four story office buildings and because KC is not getting new office space and the jobs that come with that, demand for residential will eventually decrease and then you won't have ten four story residential buildings going up anymore (which eventually are joined by 40 story towers).

Never mind. I concede. Carry on.

...but we did get a new Jimmy Johns on Broadway in recent years. Big things happening in DT KC!!

Rooftops first we were always told then the retail and offices come back...so we focused on residents...now we are being told offices first or the rooftops leave? I'm confused.

KCPowercat wrote:Rooftops first we were always told then the retail and offices come back...so we focused on residents...now we are being told offices first or the rooftops leave? I'm confused.

Exactly. And that's what KC did. The problem is the companies didn't really do what they tend to do and follow rooftops. They are just still going further and further into the suburbs.

Downtown KC has had very impressive residential growth for many years now. All I'm saying is that after the initial pent up demand for downtown living is met, rooftops will slow dramatically prematurely if more offices don't start coming back downtown too.

Again, I don't care if KC builds a new skyscraper, but the lack of a changing skyline is a side effect of the lack of interest regional companies have in downtown KC.

I'm more encouraged than ever that jobs will come back....maybe not in big beautiful skyscraper form we are talking about here but jobs are already coming back downtown and it's just started.

And especially as rents rise. Rents in KC can't continue to rise if more people can't work downtown. There are not enough people that would be willing to pay premium prices to live downtown only to have to commute to far flung office parks. If more jobs don't come downtown, the residential boom will grind to a halt or at least slow dramatically.

The office reports reflect that optimism. Vacancy rates going down downtown and rent rates going up....still under average so still can be played as a value

I don't think the proximity to jobs is as important to renters who choose to be downtown ....most people still sadly drive in KC anyways and we have on traffic so the time savings they capture in other metros isn't as big of an advantage here....people are picking to live downtown because of the environment.....jobs would be a nice additions anchor though don't get me wrong.

GRID wrote:^ Right. It's not like KC is trying to keep up with Minneapolis, or Denver or Seattle or Charlotte or even Nashville now. It's the cities you mentioned, plus Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati etc as well, not to mention smaller cities like Des Moines, Omaha, OKC etc. KC is a better city than most of these other places, but the lack of interest in downtown KC by the corporate community is mind boggling. Meanwhile, you have spec office space going up at 159th Metcalf? Cerner is building a 4 millions sq ft campus and companies are still jumping from one side of state line to the other in the 435 corridor.

Again, I hope people don't think I'm being a downer. I think people in KC should be excited about all the development that's happening, but at the same time, I hope they realize that every city in the country is doing at least as much as KC is doing as far as residential, but I'm not sure there is another example of a city that has struggled as much as KC when it comes to downtown corporate investment. Maybe St Louis I guess, but then they have Clayton which has seen a lot more action than Downtown KC/Plaza.

I just hope the mayor and others in KC keep this topic hot. KC companies have to be listening.

KC's office drought is partially fueled by its lack of decent housing within the city which creates basically a major chicken and egg problem for KC. Look at growth in the KC metro - even in KCMO, Clay and Platte outpace Jackson County by some margin. Jackson County either loses population most years or struggles to break even, even with the huge apartment influx downtown. Most families in the metro look first for suburban housing. The suburban mindset is so ingrained in KC that when downtown does score a rare relocation from Johnson County, complaints from some affected employees read as if they've been just handed a death sentence. On the housing front, Brookside is great but it's essentially the only good sized inboard neighborhood in KC for upper middle class and it's still rather small and pretty expensive. Many of the other preserved and gentrified neighborhoods are just too edgy and old for most people. We have been looking for a retirement home in urban KC, it's not been easy - I admit to being very picky but unless I want to pay > half a million or live in a dodgy place, there's very little available.

KC lost so much in the 60's and 70's and while it's been on the upswing lately, the catalyst to get it over the edge, just hasn't been there. The Sprint Center, the P&L District and the apartment boom has brought people downtown but not that many jobs. Sadly, the city lost a major opportunity in Cerner. I see KC's support for Cerner's 87th street offices as perhaps the greatest lost opportunity ever for the city. As I've said before, Lees Summit should have been providing the incentives on that deal. Cerner was the one company that could have brought a critical mass of workers downtown to actually drive gentrification in the core and with owned housing and condos rather than just apartments. Unfortunately, they made and executed their plans before a change of leadership in the corporation that might have been more amenable to a downtown footprint.

KCPowercat wrote:I'm more encouraged than ever that jobs will come back....maybe not in big beautiful skyscraper form we are talking about here but jobs are already coming back downtown and it's just started.

I guess so. It's just when you see so many new office buildings going up in metro KC outside of downtown and most jobs bringing new young people to KC are in suburban office parks, it seems extremely slow. Slow enough to start to impact the residential side of things.

Maybe there will be a snowball effect soon.

I just would hate to see so much momentum in KC slow after getting sort of a late start in the first place. I think Three Light will be a good indicator of all this. (when they break ground and how fast Two Light and or Three light leases up), along with all the other major developments coming online this year. KC will have a lot of units to absorb. It will be interesting. If Three Light continues to be delayed etc, then you will know there may be some indications that downtown needs more jobs than what's been coming because residential is NOT slowing down in other markets, it seems to only ramp up every year.