well I was trying to match up apple to apple with cost. You are correct you can get a much lower cost, but for the same you can get more and still stay in the time radiusflyingember wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:08 pmDramatically less. 10-15 minutes is homes at $150k
There isn't a new condo on the market that will be below $300k + HOA fees
Downtown New Residential Units
-
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1064
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
-
- Strip mall
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:16 am
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
High rise co-op/condo: MAJOR consideration is HOA.
I have a personal view (twice over):
#1:
In looking at S. Fl; I liked high-rise waterfront. Great location, less money. HOA for a high-rise is often $1000+/mo. Parking garages, commons areas, ELEVATORS, roof repair requiring heavy-lift helicopters, dickhead neighbors who leave water running and flood people beneath them?
I chose a (much more expensive) home with dirt and attached garages on the water. Price was much higher, HOA was way lower.
Resale liquidity is far better (not for sale, by a long-shot)
#2:
SF Tower. EXACTLY the same as S. Florida; but I suspect deferred maintenance. Instead of a "special assessment"; the hunch is a HOA loan; repaid via a HOA levy based on perceived sale value of the units.
This is why LOW TAX towns tend to be more prosperous than high-tax towns. The recurring burden eventually DEVALUES the asset. SFO Tower (and that old BMA tower) are examples of this.
I have a personal view (twice over):
#1:
In looking at S. Fl; I liked high-rise waterfront. Great location, less money. HOA for a high-rise is often $1000+/mo. Parking garages, commons areas, ELEVATORS, roof repair requiring heavy-lift helicopters, dickhead neighbors who leave water running and flood people beneath them?
I chose a (much more expensive) home with dirt and attached garages on the water. Price was much higher, HOA was way lower.
Resale liquidity is far better (not for sale, by a long-shot)
#2:
SF Tower. EXACTLY the same as S. Florida; but I suspect deferred maintenance. Instead of a "special assessment"; the hunch is a HOA loan; repaid via a HOA levy based on perceived sale value of the units.
This is why LOW TAX towns tend to be more prosperous than high-tax towns. The recurring burden eventually DEVALUES the asset. SFO Tower (and that old BMA tower) are examples of this.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Is it an issue that is condo specific? Or would minimal amenities fix this issue in your mindkenrbnj wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:20 pm High rise co-op/condo: MAJOR consideration is HOA.
I have a personal view (twice over):
#1:
In looking at S. Fl; I liked high-rise waterfront. Great location, less money. HOA for a high-rise is often $1000+/mo. Parking garages, commons areas, ELEVATORS, roof repair requiring heavy-lift helicopters, dickhead neighbors who leave water running and flood people beneath them?
I chose a (much more expensive) home with dirt and attached garages on the water. Price was much higher, HOA was way lower.
Resale liquidity is far better (not for sale, by a long-shot)
#2:
SF Tower. EXACTLY the same as S. Florida; but I suspect deferred maintenance. Instead of a "special assessment"; the hunch is a HOA loan; repaid via a HOA levy based on perceived sale value of the units.
This is why LOW TAX towns tend to be more prosperous than high-tax towns. The recurring burden eventually DEVALUES the asset. SFO Tower (and that old BMA tower) are examples of this.
Should KC stick to Lowrise row house condos?
Maybe a condo-apartment mix is the best we can do? I just don’t get how Lincoln can get at least one down but we somehow can’t.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Reverb is a weird mix of saltwater pool prices for no amenities. Otherwise, I think we would have seen that one fill up quickly.beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:28 amYes, I agree. We are starting to burn through the upper market now that has to have a saltwater pool, a spa and a wine storage locker. The mid-market is wide open and much larger. The amenities will be cut because downtown IS the amenity!normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:51 am Seems like no amenities could be the best path forward. For example, a skinny condo tower to the north of Consentinos could share the One Light pool & gym and use existing garage spaces.
A single residential project is never going to have its own quality gym so why include one at all? Projects below 200 units generally can't pencil in a resort-style pool so why have a pool at all? Cut all of that extra cost out and let residents use pooled community resources like neighborhood gyms and pools.
This is why I think that the Lincoln condo tower idea makes sense here. Cut out everything someone else in the neighborhood is doing better (most of the amenities). Provide people with a nice home, bellman, and maybe a communal rooftop space. Heck, you could even build it on the north end of the One Light block and share the pool, gym, and parking amenities.
Market: 37 condo units can't be that hard to fill in a city like KC. If just 2 players, past or present, from each major league team bought a unit we would be halfway to the 14 needed to get a construction loan. What about doctors from Hospital hill and NKC Hospital? New WR HQ? I'm sure we could land another 2 financial professionals looking for a home downtown. Boom there is your 14 needed to get a construction loan.
-
- Strip mall
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:16 am
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Normalthings: There is definitely a market for the high-density, high-rise condominium product. The product, the price, and the HOA covenants must be correct.
HOAs nationally have this core problem: Absent disciplined covenants; heavy ($$) maintenance gets deferred. Developers exacerbate the problem: Low reserve requirements and artificially HOA fees sells units. The problem is the maintenance tends becomes deferred, only to result in exceptionally high assessment (one-time lump sum repairs - good practice) or loans ("pay over time"- bad practice) resulting in higher monthly fees.
Demographics help, as empty-nest resident have the money, do not need the extra space, simpler lifestyle.
Height makes the view, of course!
SFO tower is a perverted aberration. Those penthouse units should be selling for $1.2M or more. However, the $4,200 HOA fees are disgusting. Clearly the HOA made some incredibly stupid decisions. Hence you sell a penthouse for $320,000 with some of the most commanding views of downtown.
..Compare it with my home 20 years ago on Union Hill-- 204 E. 30th Street. Similar view; no liability.
HOAs nationally have this core problem: Absent disciplined covenants; heavy ($$) maintenance gets deferred. Developers exacerbate the problem: Low reserve requirements and artificially HOA fees sells units. The problem is the maintenance tends becomes deferred, only to result in exceptionally high assessment (one-time lump sum repairs - good practice) or loans ("pay over time"- bad practice) resulting in higher monthly fees.
Demographics help, as empty-nest resident have the money, do not need the extra space, simpler lifestyle.
Height makes the view, of course!
SFO tower is a perverted aberration. Those penthouse units should be selling for $1.2M or more. However, the $4,200 HOA fees are disgusting. Clearly the HOA made some incredibly stupid decisions. Hence you sell a penthouse for $320,000 with some of the most commanding views of downtown.
..Compare it with my home 20 years ago on Union Hill-- 204 E. 30th Street. Similar view; no liability.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 9862
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Financial mismanagement is a well known trait among pro athletes. Don't assume they have a ton of money on hand to spendnormalthings wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:48 pm
Market: 37 condo units can't be that hard to fill in a city like KC. If just 2 players, past or present, from each major league team bought a unit we would be halfway to the 14 needed to get a construction loan. What about doctors from Hospital hill and NKC Hospital? New WR HQ? I'm sure we could land another 2 financial professionals looking for a home downtown. Boom there is your 14 needed to get a construction loan.
https://www.investopedia.com/financial- ... abits.aspx
And sports players are likely to get traded if they're doing well enough to be able to buy a nice unit. So renting makes more financial sense.
- DColeKC
- Ambassador
- Posts: 3921
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Agree and disagree here. No doubt there are still several well paid athletes that piss it all away, but I've been lucky to know a handful of NFL guys on a friend level and I'm sincerely impressed with how they manage their money. They all make the occasional ridiculous purchase, but they invest, have financial advisors and often, the big ticket items they buy will only appreciate in value. I've also known a few guys who blow 20k at a night club. I'm sure they regret it the next day.flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:27 amFinancial mismanagement is a well known trait among pro athletes. Don't assume they have a ton of money on hand to spendnormalthings wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:48 pm
Market: 37 condo units can't be that hard to fill in a city like KC. If just 2 players, past or present, from each major league team bought a unit we would be halfway to the 14 needed to get a construction loan. What about doctors from Hospital hill and NKC Hospital? New WR HQ? I'm sure we could land another 2 financial professionals looking for a home downtown. Boom there is your 14 needed to get a construction loan.
https://www.investopedia.com/financial- ... abits.aspx
And sports players are likely to get traded if they're doing well enough to be able to buy a nice unit. So renting makes more financial sense.
The guys I know were a mixed bag of renting and buying. The guys who were drafted local and got decent contracts purchased right away. Others, rented a few years before buying and some still rent. Guys like the honey badger is renting a large house in OP and doesn't seem to intend to buy. Most of the guys who I know that have purchased plan on this being home base even after retirement. Mahomes being a prime example. He's actually looking to move up to a large home at the moment.
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
- normalthings
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8018
- Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
There is some irrational exuberance in multi-family development across KC and our peer cities. Projects are being brought back from the dead and tall/extravagant are getting played around with. KC and peers have some pretty exciting stuff in the works that may or may not end up getting announced or even built.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8519
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
- Location: milky way, orion arm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Not quite following why you think that's irrational, can you elaborate?
The demand is greater than new supply in most any growing market. Construction costs and labor issues are slowing things down for now but not the planning. Pipeline lists are always much longer than what gets delivered as projects can be killed for many reasons. KC metro has about 35K units planned/prospective with delivery typically about 4K-5K/yr, a common ratio in other markets. Pretty common many won't ever be built in any market. Demand in the city may fluctuate but would think when streetcar expansions complete, there will be another surge.
The demand is greater than new supply in most any growing market. Construction costs and labor issues are slowing things down for now but not the planning. Pipeline lists are always much longer than what gets delivered as projects can be killed for many reasons. KC metro has about 35K units planned/prospective with delivery typically about 4K-5K/yr, a common ratio in other markets. Pretty common many won't ever be built in any market. Demand in the city may fluctuate but would think when streetcar expansions complete, there will be another surge.
-
- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8519
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
- Location: milky way, orion arm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
high demand for downtown living + reduced demand for office space = office to residential conversion trend...
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -sale.html
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -sale.html
- GRID
- City Hall
- Posts: 17212
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
- Contact:
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
A residential building on top of that garage would be really nice.earthling wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:12 pm high demand for downtown living + reduced demand for office space = office to residential conversion trend...
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -sale.html
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18284
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Yes, it would be great if they could add apartments on that garage.
I am still concerned about losing more office space without replacement space being built, and attracting more employers downtown.
I am still concerned about losing more office space without replacement space being built, and attracting more employers downtown.
- DaveKCMO
- Ambassador
- Posts: 20064
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
- Location: Crossroads
- Contact:
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
No one's going to miss that office space. Convert away!
- TheLastGentleman
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2938
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
I thought for sure this thing had been converted/renovated within the last 5 years or so but I guess not. It had a national register application filed for it but maybe that never came to anything
-
- Ambassador
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:16 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
About 1/3 of the building was converted to apartments, I believe the top few floors. The new buyer has the opportunity to convert the rest, although some floors still have office users with lease term left. Not sure why they are exiting the project half-finished, but looks like several lawsuits from previous office tenants were filed regarding their tenancy during conversion of the other floors from office to residential.
- DaveKCMO
- Ambassador
- Posts: 20064
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
- Location: Crossroads
- Contact:
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
The top 1/3 and some units on the 2nd level of the garage structure that face Main with much larger windows than the main building.
- AlkaliAxel
- Broadway Square
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
- Location: West Plaza
- Cratedigger
- Valencia Place
- Posts: 1872
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:32 pm
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
Seems like a great development and a sustainable use for an older office building.
Hopefully now we can get some newer, quality offices built downtown to replace this office space. Something newer might be more attractive to businesses looking.
Hopefully now we can get some newer, quality offices built downtown to replace this office space. Something newer might be more attractive to businesses looking.
- FangKC
- City Hall
- Posts: 18284
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
- Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound
Re: Downtown New Residential Units
The article doesn't say how many floors on the garage.