Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
- Chris Stritzel
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Are the garages at the Plaza built to support future construction on top? If not, some would probably have to come down or be heavily altered (as in cutting portions of the parking deck out to build new supports) to support building on top of them. It's a decent idea, but one that would probably be tricky to execute. And if new things were to be built on top of them, I would like to see them follow a Spanish-ish style. Don't make them too tall though.
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- Alameda Tower
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
I totally agree with the Spanish style, I think it would be nice if we had strict design requirements for the plaza interior. However anything surrounding they need to let it go. I find it would be more meaningful to have a strictly Spanish quarter, and the buildings around it to be normal, rather than the ridiculousness we have now where people are complaining about height and lack of spanishness on developments that want to go in at 45thChris Stritzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:36 pm Are the garages at the Plaza built to support future construction on top? If not, some would probably have to come down or be heavily altered (as in cutting portions of the parking deck out to build new supports) to support building on top of them. It's a decent idea, but one that would probably be tricky to execute. And if new things were to be built on top of them, I would like to see them follow a Spanish-ish style. Don't make them too tall though.
- Steve52
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Lived here 28 years. The Plaza has gone from a ultra pedestrian friendly area with no traffic lights, imagine that.. to a automobile and noise polluted mess.
Maybe it is time to slow down just a little bit and start doing a little damage control?
Maybe it is time to slow down just a little bit and start doing a little damage control?
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Examples of modern construction that may complement Plaza's Spanish architecture. Think of the upper levels of first pic on top of existing garages. Appropriate enough for Plaza? Maybe hire residential architects from Seville, Spain?
- normalthings
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Bulldoze the entire center block with the Starbucks and rebuild it. It’s almost entirely parking on the most valuable piece of Plaza real estateFangKC wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:47 pm I just wish they would develop that damned embankment on the north side of 46th Terrace.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0434561 ... 6656?hl=en
- normalthings
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
10-15 floors is around the density of real life Seville.earthling wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:20 am Is it time for the bowl to go away? 10 floor max? 25 floor max? The 'Save the Plaza' crowd and some in neighborhood would probably fight that one. When the Boomers move on to next realm, might be better time.
On tearing down garages mentioned, most are pretty well hidden as it is (better than new downtown garages). May as well build on top, 6-8 floors might work w/out much of a fight.
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- New York Life
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
This, the garage at 47th & Penn, and the old halls are about the only places in the bowl I think you could demo and redevelop without all hell breaking loose. And even then Halls is probably a precarious proposition.normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:06 pm
Bulldoze the entire center block with the Starbucks and rebuild it. It’s almost entirely parking on the most valuable piece of Plaza real estate
- beautyfromashes
- One Park Place
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
I still would love a beer garden, ala Hofbrauhaus in KC and the Plaza would be a good location. It would also make for another great event to have an Octoberfest in this city for the first time. Close off Nichols road for it in the fall and let people feel more comfortable having it pedestrian only and then switch to permanent.
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:06 pm
Bulldoze the entire center block with the Starbucks and rebuild it. It’s almost entirely parking on the most valuable piece of Plaza real estate
If shopping centers in Kansas City want good tenants (national or local) and shoppers they need parking.
Bulldoze the entire center block with the Starbucks and rebuild it. It’s almost entirely parking on the most valuable piece of Plaza real estate
If shopping centers in Kansas City want good tenants (national or local) and shoppers they need parking.
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Halls isn't on the Plaza. They closed that store in 2014.horizons82 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:15 pm This, the garage at 47th & Penn, and the old halls are about the only places in the bowl I think you could demo and redevelop without all hell breaking loose. And even then Halls is probably a precarious proposition.
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
If free bus turns out to be a permanent metro wide service, the Plaza could probably lose some parking - as well as with free streetcar going by in 5 years or so. But for the most part, there would need to be a good amount of garage space for what is a regional draw and there's quite a bit. And even if Plaza turns part residential with less mall focus, it should still be a regional draw if a unique village with unique shops/eats. A pedestrian only street would also be a new attraction, especially if kept fresh with something new each year.
Those who are voting for Plaza to stay as a mall aren't being very realistic in the age of online shopping. Can change your vote above BTW. Will send this thread to Plaza owners again in Jan.
Those who are voting for Plaza to stay as a mall aren't being very realistic in the age of online shopping. Can change your vote above BTW. Will send this thread to Plaza owners again in Jan.
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- New York Life
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Hence why I said the old halls building...flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:04 amHalls isn't on the Plaza. They closed that store in 2014.horizons82 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:15 pm This, the garage at 47th & Penn, and the old halls are about the only places in the bowl I think you could demo and redevelop without all hell breaking loose. And even then Halls is probably a precarious proposition.
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Yes, but Halls wouldn't be in a precarious position.horizons82 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:27 amHence why I said the old halls building...flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:04 amHalls isn't on the Plaza. They closed that store in 2014.horizons82 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:15 pm This, the garage at 47th & Penn, and the old halls are about the only places in the bowl I think you could demo and redevelop without all hell breaking loose. And even then Halls is probably a precarious proposition.
Apple on the other hand...
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- New York Life
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Good lord dude, reread the post. I said precarious proposition not position, but thanks for the semantics.flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:04 am Yes, but Halls wouldn't be in a precarious position.
Apple on the other hand...
- normalthings
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Most of the parking there is below ground or more towards the center of the parcel. I would propose rebuilding it so that you keep all those below ground spots but have more detail along the outside and residential above - if that makes sense.town cow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:40 am normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:06 pm
Bulldoze the entire center block with the Starbucks and rebuild it. It’s almost entirely parking on the most valuable piece of Plaza real estate
If shopping centers in Kansas City want good tenants (national or local) and shoppers they need parking.
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Originally plans were to have an actual plaza on the Plaza somewhere in the vicinity of this block. Having a plaza might be easier to happen than making an auto street a pedestrian street, at least in autocentric KC. Am entire block openspace would be overkill here. How about clearing the block? Of any block in the historic Plaza this is the only one where all the structures are insignificant historically, aesthetically, and utility. Probably the garage needs replacing structurally anyway. Use the pit for a new garage, build 2 new 2 maybe 3 story (no taller than the old Halls, Saks or Barnes & Noble) retail/dining/whatever buildings each covering the west and east ends of the block--no empty corners. The middle third could be the plaza/pedestrian street.
Last edited by moderne on Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Mark Twain Tower
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Nichols Rd doesn't have much auto traffic anyway so could go away, 2-3 blocks anyway. And it's shut down for Plaza Art Fair every year so we have an idea how that plays out. That could essentially become The Plaza's Plaza. The Starbucks garage could be redeveloped though with something on top, perhaps with a better configured garage if really even needed. There are something like 14K parking spots on Plaza already IIRC.
- beautyfromashes
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
^ How about deck it and make it something like Brit’s Pub in Minneapolis. https://britspub.com/
- DaveKCMO
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Plaza ownership is convinced the streetcar will just consume all of their free parking and provide no benefit. Seriously.earthling wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:20 am If free bus turns out to be a permanent metro wide service, the Plaza could probably lose some parking - as well as with free streetcar going by in 5 years or so. But for the most part, there would need to be a good amount of garage space for what is a regional draw and there's quite a bit.
- normalthings
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Re: Poll: Does the Plaza need a drastic change, some change or on the right path?
Guess I will no longer be spending money there.DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:06 pmPlaza ownership is convinced the streetcar will just consume all of their free parking and provide no benefit. Seriously.earthling wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:20 am If free bus turns out to be a permanent metro wide service, the Plaza could probably lose some parking - as well as with free streetcar going by in 5 years or so. But for the most part, there would need to be a good amount of garage space for what is a regional draw and there's quite a bit.