KCRag Forum

Lots of lawsuits if you raise taxes on empty lots or parking lots. Didn’t that almost happened wth streetcar? Incentivize new development instead

While the land bankers are waiting for downtown to become the next Austin, why don’t they build and lease some 1-2 story disposable-buildings with surface lots behind, and make some money while waiting for the big payoff? I think there is a demand for more low rent retail in the loop.

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:26 pm While the land bankers are waiting for downtown to become the next Austin, why don’t they build and lease some 1-2 story disposable-buildings with surface lots behind, and make some money while waiting for the big payoff? I think there is a demand for more low rent retail in the loop.

Probably more profitable operating it as a surface parking lot honestly. Also, more attractive to most developers looking to hit the ground running.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:22 pm Lots of lawsuits if you raise taxes on empty lots or parking lots. Didn’t that almost happened wth streetcar? Incentivize new development instead

I guess if they wanted to do something to discourage people buying parking lots with the intention of using them as parking lots, they could grandfather in current owners and pass something with insane taxes or fees.

I just don't think business people who take advantage of the rules need to be punished. Similar to those who pay barely any taxes by simply using the legal options available to all of us.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:06 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:22 pm Lots of lawsuits if you raise taxes on empty lots or parking lots. Didn’t that almost happened wth streetcar? Incentivize new development instead

I guess if they wanted to do something to discourage people buying parking lots with the intention of using them as parking lots, they could grandfather in current owners and pass something with insane taxes or fees.

I just don't think business people who take advantage of the rules need to be punished. Similar to those who pay barely any taxes by simply using the legal options available to all of us.

I'm 100% with you on the fact that we shouldn't be villainizing people who saw an opportunity in the current framework of the rules and made a good investment for themselves. What they did was simply logical. I'm just saying lets identify what's wrong with the current framework and learn from the past instead of shrugging our shoulders.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:03 pm

Rabble wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 8:26 pm While the land bankers are waiting for downtown to become the next Austin, why don’t they build and lease some 1-2 story disposable-buildings with surface lots behind, and make some money while waiting for the big payoff? I think there is a demand for more low rent retail in the loop.

Probably more profitable operating it as a surface parking lot honestly. Also, more attractive to most developers looking to hit the ground running.

The only projects “that hit the ground running” are no where near the acres of asphalt in the loop. The buildings I’m talking about could be knocked over in a weekend, and I’m sure leases could be agreed upon in the case a project did come along “that hit the ground running”.

Land Tax is the answer.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:07 am Land Tax is the answer.

The Land Tax has been a frequent subject in The Economist as an "efficient" means of generating tax revenue.

There are holes in the rationale given by The Economist. Profoundly, implementing a Land Tax where the tax landscape had been based on "improvement" is generally intractable in the purest form. There is simply too much investment made under the old rules for a unified Land Tax approach to be implemented in the purest forms. ..It's well documented if there is interest.

Most critically, if a draconian approach to property taxation policy is applied, venues such as Johnson County beckon. Hence, degrees of "tax freedom" are constrained. Only if universal unified tax policy is employed will substantive changes be accepted. Johnson County plays ball? There's always Omaha, Dallas, etc.

That subject covers "the stick".

Hence the subject of incentive had been the logical conclusion. TIF and such. There's your "carrot".


I share the abhorrence of surface parking lots in the CBD. Man, if there were a string to pull to force property bankers to reconsider their position; I would cheer. Every string one pulls seems to hurt "the good guys" such as Cordish..

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:27 am

shinatoo wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:07 am Land Tax is the answer.

I share the abhorrence of surface parking lots in the CBD. Man, if there were a string to pull to force property bankers to reconsider their position; I would cheer. Every string one pulls seems to hurt "the good guys" such as Cordish.

Wouldn't Cordish not be affected by the land tax since KCMO owns the land that most of the P&L District sits on? Municipal land is not taxed. I think in the case of the P&L Distrist, any property taxes would likely be only on the buildings themselves and not the land.

Does anyone know how that specific example works?

Urban Lab does great work. This one made me very sad. I hadn't seen this visual before. What was the building that was just east of where city hall is now? Pretty much dead center of the picture.





https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl6dwU_ry3F/?hl=en

The building you’re referring to was old Central High School

https://kchistory.org/image/central-high-school-7

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:29 pm Urban Lab does great work.

We’re definitely shooting for that, if anyone has any suggestions or critiques absolutely let us know! We’ve got some solid projects on deck that we think everyone will love.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:52 am

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:29 pm Urban Lab does great work.

We’re definitely shooting for that, if anyone has any suggestions or critiques absolutely let us know! We’ve got some solid projects on deck that we think everyone will love.

Oh Hugo you're behind that?! Nice to hear!

The visuals have done a great job educating people that otherwise wouldn't care about urban planning. My gf actually is the one who showed me the account. She's not from KC or much of a follower of downtown development. Thanks for the work you're doing and wish you all the best of luck! Looking forward to seeing what you're cooking up

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:54 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:52 am

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:29 pm Urban Lab does great work.

We’re definitely shooting for that, if anyone has any suggestions or critiques absolutely let us know! We’ve got some solid projects on deck that we think everyone will love.

Oh Hugo you're behind that?! Nice to hear!

The visuals have done a great job educating people that otherwise wouldn't care about urban planning. My gf actually is the one who showed me the account. She's not from KC or much of a follower of downtown development. Thanks for the work you're doing and wish you all the best of luck! Looking forward to seeing what you're cooking up

Shit, I wish I was behind the visuals, those guys crush it on that front. I don’t have the art skills for that though, I mostly manage the Twitter for it. I’ll pass along the praise and be sure to let them know how well they’re working at breaking down the concepts. That’s definitely what we shoot for though, is making it all simple and easy to understand.

We’ve definitely got some interesting concepts that are cooking up, and I’ll do my best to cross post over to here whenever we have a post come out as well.

Alright this fire this thread back up since the Royals aren't going here. What are we going to do with this land? Let's get it back on the tax rolls and mitigate some of the loss from the crossroads stadium land.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:53 am Alright this fire this thread back up since the Royals aren't going here. What are we going to do with this land? Let's get it back on the tax rolls and mitigate some of the loss from the crossroads stadium land.

Feels like one challenge is most of the land is held by a single private owner. I think ideally development would follow something like BNIM's master plan from way back when. Medium scale office and residential with a focus on walkability and transit.

I could see another quality hill type thing with more ownership possibilities as a great idea. Close enough to everything but far enough away that it isn't on the residents front porch.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:05 am I could see another quality hill type thing with more ownership possibilities as a great idea. Close enough to everything but far enough away that it isn't on the residents front porch.

It doesn't the built environment that Quality Hill started with or Broadway which was commercial enough to offer some services but it's certainly a blank canvass. It may not be politically correct to point this out but the myriad of homeless shelters/missions across the loop in Paseo West is something that Quality Hill didn't have on it's periphery either. But no reason to bank those properties anymore.

I think a more rectangular stadium for a team that will need new digs in about 15-25 years

langosta wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:24 am I think a more rectangular stadium for a team that will need new digs in about 15-25 years

No. done with stadiums here. Let's build something