KC metro growth and migration stats

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Honestly if anything it’s demonstrated consolidation. As more projects flesh out downtown in the next 5-10 years you’ll likely start to see the trend shift up

That's what St Louis has been saying forever. No matter what growth they get, they can't offset the losses.

There is still quite a bit of growth in Blue Springs, Lee's Summit etc and of course downtown is growing. So that means there is still a lot of population loss offsetting the gains in the county.

Personally, I still think most of the infrastructure in Jackson County looks like shit. It just looks like a poor run down county compared to the rest of the metro and especially compared to other major counties across the country. Wait till they turn the sports complex into another warehouse district haha.

See, I just want you to go ahead and reread this post, and then look inwards and ask yourself “gee, why is it that people think I have no faith in KC or think it’s failing?”. This post, and posts like it is the primary reason.

[FlippantCitizen]

The headline for that article seems to be making some big assumptions. Jackson County does not equal Urban KC. Urban KC is what, maybe a quarter of Jackson County's population?

I would think that Raytown, Independence, Grandview, SE KC/Ruskin Heights, could all be loosing population. I don't think we have the data to show whether urban KC is losing population or not.

Eastside KC is probably still shrinking, but some things seem to be trending in a positive direction. There are probably more currently active residential developments and proposals for the East Side than I have seen in the rest of the years of my life combined.

I agree and wish headlines like this could get a little more granular than county and municipality level stats when examining which areas of the metro are adding or losing population. Maybe those datasets don't exist...

[KCtoBrooklyn]

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[TheUrbanRoo]

I saw this last week and knew it would come up, so I did some digging and here’s what it actually says overall:

1. Among the top 40 metros, KC metro is actually *above average* for growth. We rank 17th —way better ranked than last decade. All the cities are getting whacked since 2020.

Flatlining is actually good in this climate!! https://twitter.com/producercities/stat ... RPpXS0iFBA

2. Every single urban core in the country except maybe Austin is hollowing out since Covid- the real question is whether you’re keeping it stable or if you’re falling off a cliff.

Even Dallas & Houston (both are top 5 in growth) are seeing hollowed out urban cores. The goal right is to just keep downtown growing and keep the rest of the country around neutral overall.

Here’s a chart for that: https://twitter.com/producercities/stat ... RPpXS0iFBA


TLDR: we’re actually doing better than last decade, in a weird post-Covid way…

[earthling]

[earthling]

I agree and wish headlines like this could get a little more granular than county and municipality level stats when examining which areas of the metro are adding or losing population. Maybe those datasets don't exist...

The city proper and metro stats aren't out yet. Coming soon. Only county and state stats so far. Though you can calculate metro with county stats.

[GRID]

Honestly if anything it’s demonstrated consolidation. As more projects flesh out downtown in the next 5-10 years you’ll likely start to see the trend shift up

That's what St Louis has been saying forever. No matter what growth they get, they can't offset the losses.

There is still quite a bit of growth in Blue Springs, Lee's Summit etc and of course downtown is growing. So that means there is still a lot of population loss offsetting the gains in the county.

Personally, I still think most of the infrastructure in Jackson County looks like shit. It just looks like a poor run down county compared to the rest of the metro and especially compared to other major counties across the country. Wait till they turn the sports complex into another warehouse district haha.

See, I just want you to go ahead and reread this post, and then look inwards and ask yourself “gee, why is it that people think I have no faith in KC or think it’s failing?”. This post, and posts like it is the primary reason.

IDK, because most of Jackson County does in fact look like shit outside of some of its suburban areas and most of KCMO west of Troost. It has almost no transit to speak of outside of the streetcar corridor, the roads and highways and parks are generally just not well maintained and are never properly rebuilt. Jackson County does not act like the primary county of a large metro area. The county never even attempts to make things better. When is the last time the county took the initiative to improve infrastructure/transit/parks etc? It all up to the cities.

It's like the county government doesn't even exist. Which is why the county gets pushed around by Modot too. Jackson County gets the absolute bare minimum from Modot while St Louis County and St Charles County pretty much push around Modot. Even the sports complex area would not be in the shape it is in now if it were in just about any other county in the metro. I mean for for god's sake, there is not even sidewalks on Blue Ridge. The area look like the stadiums were plopped down in southern MO somewhere 50 YEARS LATER. Actualy the area looks worse today than it did in the 70's with all the run down hotels.

I know you don't like me being critical all the time, but some things about KC need a lot more people to be critical and negative.

You think I'm bad now. Shit. You should have seen me in the 90's and early 2000's. Not only was KCMO a fucking disaster back then but Jackson County was even worse. Blue Ridge mall decaying, bridges crumbling onto cars on I-70 and the county as a whole was losing people I'm pretty sure. So some things in Jackson County have gotten a little better. The Zoo being the big one which is now funded by two counties!

But Jackson still has a ways to go. Hell even Wyandotte has more vision than Jackson even if its suburban.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Honestly if anything it’s demonstrated consolidation. As more projects flesh out downtown in the next 5-10 years you’ll likely start to see the trend shift up

Not only will that happen, it already *has* happened too. KCMO has gone from negative growth in the 90's to double-digit growth in the 2010's.

He thinks being flat-lined right now is terrible but we're literally lucky to be flat right now because that's above average and everyone else is emptying out.

So yes, 5-10 years when these public projects can start bringing dividends I think we get into the top 10 of the top-40 metros.

[TheLastGentleman]

I know you don't like me being critical all the time, but some things about KC need a lot more people to be critical and negative.

Then move back here and say it to our faces. You’re not helping anyone with what you’re doing on here

[langosta]

I know you don't like me being critical all the time, but some things about KC need a lot more people to be critical and negative.

Then move back here and say it to our faces. You’re not helping anyone with what you’re doing on here

Grid, Wrong take. St louis is filled with citizens who are critical, negative, etc. KC has many of the same issues but feels soo different because people are positive/believe in a way they don’t over there.

You need citizens to see opportunity and want change. I think I know what you are trying to say but negativity doesn’t help anyone.

[TheUrbanRoo]

StL really isn't even in the same realm as KC population growth, then or now. KC is just down because the whole country is. StL is down because they're in trouble.

[FlippantCitizen]

Anthony is right, we are bulking up Downtown and Midtown. Also Lee Summit and Blue Springs continue to grow. So to have overall flat growth there must be some concentrated areas of negative growth. I think it can be deduced a lot of that is between 71 and 435. What I would like to know is how broad of a story that is, are there exceptions within the East Side, how is the Old Northeast doing, what other areas of the county are contributing to this, how badly is Independence faltering, has the depopulation of the East Side slowed at all or is it accelerating? That last question is basically what I'm driving at. Is the East Side almost tapped out in the population that it has to lose or is there farther to fall? It's important because having that massive of an area of urban disinvestment and depopulation will always hold us back from our goals of having robust urban infrastructure and city services. Even if we do bulk up Downtown, that hasn't given us the overall population gains in urban KC, yes KC grew by 10% last decade but presumably much of that was the Northland. If growth is flat while Downtown booms and suburbs continue to chug, well that paints a pretty bleak picture for how things are going for the East Side. Stabilizing the East Side population has got to be one of the biggest goals of the city and county government.

As for how we are faring compared to other metros and their core city/county... Well we can hold ourselves out against them and think in relative terms or judge our own success in absolute terms. While both can be useful I think it's important to remember that not doing as badly as most is not the same as success.

[langosta]

Truly believe East West streetcar is needed. BRT isn’t going to stabilize and build back

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Truly believe East West streetcar is needed. BRT isn’t going to stabilize and build back

BRT would be a stop gap to prevent further emptying out, but agreed, if you want to see significant growth and infill, streetcar is the means by which to achieve it.

[GRID]

I was not even talking about KCMO. I'm sure when the city population numbers come out, KCMO will be up some more. Because the northland and downtown growth will offset any east side / south side losses.

And Metro KC is likely growing at the same modest clip it has been.

I was only talking about Jackson County. Because I think Jackson County is the most worthless county government I have ever seen for a large urbanized county and the proof is right there when you simply drive around the county, visit the stadiums, drive down any of the interstates or major arterials, etc. It's just not a well run county and does nothing to bring all the cities together for county wide improvements. They simply throw money at the stadiums (without so much as doing some landscaping to the area around them). That's it.

Jackson County needs to step up, just like KCMO has done the past 15 or so years.

Take that as you please.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

That's what St Louis has been saying forever. No matter what growth they get, they can't offset the losses.

There is still quite a bit of growth in Blue Springs, Lee's Summit etc and of course downtown is growing. So that means there is still a lot of population loss offsetting the gains in the county.

Personally, I still think most of the infrastructure in Jackson County looks like shit. It just looks like a poor run down county compared to the rest of the metro and especially compared to other major counties across the country. Wait till they turn the sports complex into another warehouse district haha.

See, I just want you to go ahead and reread this post, and then look inwards and ask yourself “gee, why is it that people think I have no faith in KC or think it’s failing?”. This post, and posts like it is the primary reason.

I know you don't like me being critical all the time, but some things about KC need a lot more people to be critical and negative.

No one is upset with your critiques of KC, it’s valuable feedback that helps to better the region. We simply get tired of the CONSTANT and never ceasing negative perspective on KC. You say you love KC and are simply hard on her because you want it to be the best, but you’re the quickest one to find flaw in anything and always take the pessimistic approach. I don’t think anyone would have too much an issue if you were boots on the ground the way we were everyday, but being that you have a predominantly outside perspective with occasional stop-ins is what really drives the disdain for your stances.

All of us are critical of KC and the region, and many of us are active in bringing those critiques to the authorities that can do something to actually change them, but only acknowledging the negative aspects of things disregards the work that’s been done to actually improve KC in the last 30 years.

Keep being a tough critic, it’s needed, but also take some space to acknowledge when we’re pushing in the right direction as well. The best way to better the city isn’t just with improvement suggestions, but also sustains for what’s working, and it’ll help to acknowledge those just the same.

[FlippantCitizen]

I was not even talking about KCMO. I'm sure when the city population numbers come out, KCMO will be up some more. Because the northland and downtown growth will offset any east side / south side losses.

And Metro KC is likely growing at the same modest clip it has been.

I was only talking about Jackson County. Because I think Jackson County is the most worthless county government I have ever seen for a large urbanized county and the proof is right there when you simply drive around the county, visit the stadiums, drive down any of the interstates or major arterials, etc. It's just not a well run county and does nothing to bring all the cities together for county wide improvements. They simply throw money at the stadiums (without so much as doing some landscaping to the area around them). That's it.

Jackson County needs to step up, just like KCMO has done the past 15 or so years.

Take that as you please.

Point well taken. I agree that Jackson County is not a source of leadership and if it was it could make a big difference. The weakness of Jackson County is at the heart of my point though. Some of the most challenged yet critical areas of the metro lie in the heart of JaxCo. A significant portion KCMO's growth comes from the Northland. I care about 10x less about whatever greenfield gets developed in the Northland next compared to getting the Eastside growing again and making sure Independence is at least stable. The die has been cast. The Northland might fill out, increase in population, and overall that might be good for the metro, but it is still a bunch of suburban shit that doesn't interest me in the slightest. Urban KC's growth means growth or at least stability in the Jackson County parts of KC. That has to be broader than RCP corridor. JaxCo government should step up and be a part of that because the cross currents with North and South of the river in the KCMO city government are holding us back.

[GRID]

I was not even talking about KCMO. I'm sure when the city population numbers come out, KCMO will be up some more. Because the northland and downtown growth will offset any east side / south side losses.

And Metro KC is likely growing at the same modest clip it has been.

I was only talking about Jackson County. Because I think Jackson County is the most worthless county government I have ever seen for a large urbanized county and the proof is right there when you simply drive around the county, visit the stadiums, drive down any of the interstates or major arterials, etc. It's just not a well run county and does nothing to bring all the cities together for county wide improvements. They simply throw money at the stadiums (without so much as doing some landscaping to the area around them). That's it.

Jackson County needs to step up, just like KCMO has done the past 15 or so years.

Take that as you please.

Point well taken. I agree that Jackson County is not a source of leadership and if it was it could make a big difference. The weakness of Jackson County is at the heart of my point though. Some of the most challenged yet critical areas of the metro lie in the heart of JaxCo. A significant portion KCMO's growth comes from the Northland. I care about 10x less about whatever greenfield gets developed in the Northland next compared to getting the Eastside growing again and making sure Independence is at least stable. The die has been cast. The Northland might fill out, increase in population, and overall that might be good for the metro, but it is still a bunch of suburban shit that doesn't interest me in the slightest. Urban KC's growth means growth or at least stability in the Jackson County parts of KC. That has to be broader than RCP corridor. JaxCo government should step up and be a part of that because the cross currents with North and South of the river in the KCMO city government are holding us back.

That's all I'm saying. And after decades of watching Jackson County do nothing it's irritating. I may not live there now, but I owned two homes in Jackson County and rented in many other places. I have always been hard on Jackson County and sadly nothing has changed despite every other county in the metro seeming to at least try. Obviously Johnson County is the king of suburban planning and infrastructure, but Clay and Platte are also pretty good overlaying their governmental input on top of the cities in the northland. Even Wyandotte County's abysmal efforts east of the Speedway are way ahead of anything Jackson County has accomplished. WyCo is starting to do something with their Kaw Riverfront and they will likely tie into the streetcar system near KU med before Jackson County figures out how to fund some county wide bus routes.

Yea, I'm negative about Jackson County. Honestly, I'm scared of them dropping the ball with the stadiums, especially Arrowhead. All they know is they want the stadium to stay. They have NO IDEA how to go about making it happen though other than putting the tax on the ballot.

The biggest thing that bugs me about Jackson County is they are key to KC having a true transit system. Not KCMO alone. KCMO is too fragment with the northland. KC needs to start with Jackson County to build out a good urban and regional bus/rail system within that one county. But the leadership is just not there. If they did built rail or something, they would probably forget to build sidewalks to the stations lol. That's just how Jackson County is.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Let’s put it like this- if it weren’t for the KC urban core, Jackson County would be going the way of StL. So because they made the right moves the past 20 years they’re still afloat with the potential to come up even further here in 5-10 years.

[GRID]

Let’s put it like this- if it weren’t for the KC urban core, Jackson County would be going the way of StL. So because they made the right moves the past 20 years they’re still afloat with the potential to come up even further here in 5-10 years.

You see and that's just not true either. I still don't think people have any idea how many people live in Jackson County outside the urban core.

Lee's Summit 104,000 growing quickly
Blue Springs 60,000 growing quickly
Grain Valley 17,000 growing quickly
Independence 122,000 growing slowly
Raytown 30,000 stable
Grandview 26,000 stable
And areas like Redbridge, Martin City, Watts Mill etc in KCMO are very suburban and stable if not growing slowly.
Then you have exurbs like Oak Grove, Lone Jack, Greenwood etc which are stable or growing.

These stable to growing areas of Jackson County outside the urban core are 450k plus of the 700k in Jackson County.

All the more reason to have a strong county government.