Two Light - 14th & Grand

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
WoodDraw
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby WoodDraw » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:06 am

scooterj wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Should have done a pic from the 88 title game....or. the. Reebok. Ad!

(I'm not giving up)



Which building had the Reebok ad? I remember it well, but downtown has changed so much since then I am having a really hard time picturing where it was located.


14th and Grand? Facing the Sprint center now?

scooterj
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5768
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:30 pm
Location: Northmoor
Contact:

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby scooterj » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:15 am

WoodDraw wrote:
scooterj wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Should have done a pic from the 88 title game....or. the. Reebok. Ad!

(I'm not giving up)



Which building had the Reebok ad? I remember it well, but downtown has changed so much since then I am having a really hard time picturing where it was located.


14th and Grand? Facing the Sprint center now?



This building? I remember it being taller, but maybe it just seemed taller since there was nothing around it but parking lots.

Image

User avatar
KC_JAYHAWK
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:33 am
Location: Waldo

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KC_JAYHAWK » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 am

It would be cool to see a before and after picture(s) of the entire PnL area taken from the same location, before any construction even started.

StrangerThings
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:26 am

KC_JAYHAWK wrote:It would be cool to see a before and after picture(s) of the entire PnL area taken from the same location, before any construction even started.


I have one somewhere. I’ll try and dig it up.

shinatoo
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6004
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Location: Lee's Summit

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby shinatoo » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:38 am

Image

Just look at what we lost.
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit

WoodDraw
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby WoodDraw » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:42 am

scooterj wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:
scooterj wrote:

Which building had the Reebok ad? I remember it well, but downtown has changed so much since then I am having a really hard time picturing where it was located.


14th and Grand? Facing the Sprint center now?



This building? I remember it being taller, but maybe it just seemed taller since there was nothing around it but parking lots.

Image


Yes, I think that's it.

scooterj
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5768
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:30 pm
Location: Northmoor
Contact:

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby scooterj » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:47 am

shinatoo wrote:
Just look at what we lost.


While they were certainly unusable, given where we are now I find it amusing that one of the first things they had to do when they began construction was rip out all the old streetcar tracks.

WoodDraw
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby WoodDraw » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:53 am

StrangerThings wrote:
KC_JAYHAWK wrote:It would be cool to see a before and after picture(s) of the entire PnL area taken from the same location, before any construction even started.


I have one somewhere. I’ll try and dig it up.


There's also a timelapse out there somewhere that's pretty cool. I'll try to find it over lunch if I can find some time (I'm obviously working quite hard right now :p)

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28164
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:26 pm

That was the building.

I have a ton of street level and some elevated shots of the district right before h&r block started. I need to go take after shots...I tried to stand on things like manholes thinking they wouldn't move.

JBmidtown
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby JBmidtown » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:36 pm

Don’t let Darlene see. The loss of all that parking is sure to break her heart.

User avatar
FangKC
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12508
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby FangKC » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:20 pm

[quote="scooterj"

Image[/quote]

Image

alejandro46
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby alejandro46 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:33 pm

Exhibit A to justify the Cordish Parking Lot incentives.

kcjak
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1834
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:02 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby kcjak » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:15 am

Never really noticed how small the footprint of X Lights are until seeing from this perspective.

StrangerThings
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:04 am

kcjak wrote:Never really noticed how small the footprint of X Lights are until seeing from this perspective.


Four light is exciting because it’s almost the equivalent footprint of a two Light and one light combined. Much better canvas to do something different.

grecobs
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:53 am

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby grecobs » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:24 am

Incredible progress in a decade but still a lot of work to do. The new Lights will help fill in but I wonder when the other lots will be developed.

Are any of them for sale?

StrangerThings
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:41 am

grecobs wrote:Incredible progress in a decade but still a lot of work to do. The new Lights will help fill in but I wonder when the other lots will be developed.

Are any of them for sale?


I’m convinced Copaken is sitting on that prime lot at 13th and Grand and have no serious intentions to build. After the lights are done, that will be one of the last surface lots in the PNL district.

Unless they’re holding out for a future baseball stadium, I’d like to see it developed.

User avatar
ldai_phs
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:25 pm

StrangerThings wrote:
grecobs wrote:Incredible progress in a decade but still a lot of work to do. The new Lights will help fill in but I wonder when the other lots will be developed.

Are any of them for sale?


I’m convinced Copaken is sitting on that prime lot at 13th and Grand and have no serious intentions to build. After the lights are done, that will be one of the last surface lots in the PNL district.

Unless they’re holding out for a future baseball stadium, I’d like to see it developed.

they are holding out on a very large employer suddenly wanting a massive office tower that won't be ready for 3-5 years after they decide to move downtown.
Essentially Copaken is waiting for a large tenant before they build. And large tenants are looking for space that is essentially moving in ready.
Last edited by ldai_phs on Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

StrangerThings
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby StrangerThings » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:45 pm

ldai_phs wrote:
StrangerThings wrote:
grecobs wrote:Incredible progress in a decade but still a lot of work to do. The new Lights will help fill in but I wonder when the other lots will be developed.

Are any of them for sale?


I’m convinced Copaken is sitting on that prime lot at 13th and Grand and have no serious intentions to build. After the lights are done, that will be one of the last surface lots in the PNL district.

Unless they’re holding out for a future baseball stadium, I’d like to see it developed.

they are holding out on a very large employer suddenly wanting a massive office tower that won't be ready for 3-5 years after they move downtown.
Essentially Copaken is waiting for a large tenant before they build. And large tenants are looking for space that is essentially moving in ready.


Yep, In the words of Donald Trump, “SAD!” 8-[

kas1
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:36 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby kas1 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:52 pm

Honestly, there's not much that Copaken can do with that site right now. High-rise residential and hotel projects aren't viable when the city is giving substantial cash subsidies to competing projects nearby, and the office market is tepid at best. With a premium site like that it's better to wait for the right moment than to build something small and cheap just for the sake of it. An excess of good development sites can be a good problem to have.

IMO the best thing that could happen would be for Cordish to first build its second office building and then 13th and Grand gets built afterwards. The Cordish building is limited in size by the existing foundation, while the Copaken site has unlimited potential. If the Cordish building is successful then it would provide empirical evidence about the demand for new Class A space in the CBD which would allow Copaken to build something as ambitious as possible. (I'm also assuming that the Cordish building would be cheaper since its foundation is already built, and if I'm not mistaken it would not require the construction of any new parking. Lower costs = lower risk/lower target rents = less time spent waiting for the office market to improve.)

User avatar
ldai_phs
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:27 pm

kas1 wrote:Honestly, there's not much that Copaken can do with that site right now. High-rise residential and hotel projects aren't viable when the city is giving substantial cash subsidies to competing projects nearby, and the office market is tepid at best. With a premium site like that it's better to wait for the right moment than to build something small and cheap just for the sake of it. An excess of good development sites can be a good problem to have.

IMO the best thing that could happen would be for Cordish to first build its second office building and then 13th and Grand gets built afterward. The Cordish building is limited in size by the existing foundation, while the Copaken site has unlimited potential. If the Cordish building is successful then it would provide empirical evidence about the demand for new Class A space in the CBD which would allow Copaken to build something as ambitious as possible. (I'm also assuming that the Cordish building would be cheaper since its foundation is already built, and if I'm not mistaken it would not require the construction of any new parking. Lower costs = lower risk/lower target rents = less time spent waiting for the office market to improve.)


An excess of good development sites is a bad problem. If your area is in high demand, you should have only bad or none at all development sites left.

I think that someone is going to have to pull the trigger on some sort of spec. office tower. Copaken is not really a company that builds ambitious things. They have sat on like 5+ ambitious downtown projects for like the past 30 years. The only thing that they will ever build is a scaled back and rather disappointing structure. This is why everyone here is clamoring for them to just get it over with. At least they could build a mixed-use block with retail, condos/apartments, hotel, and parking and then pour the pillars for a "signature" office tower" to be built in the future


Return to “Power & Light District”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests