KCRag Forum

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am This is what I'd like to see. 4-6 stories of apartments added to the shorter buildings while maintaining the traditional facades.

On which block could you see this happening, besides the Classic Cup block? Most every block on the Plaza is backed by a garage. I don’t see how it’s possible to build up without replacing a parking structure, many of which are fairly new.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:50 am

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am This is what I'd like to see. 4-6 stories of apartments added to the shorter buildings while maintaining the traditional facades.

On which block could you see this happening, besides the Classic Cup block? Most every block on the Plaza is backed by a garage. I don’t see how it’s possible to build up without replacing a parking structure, many of which are fairly new.

Start with the Classic Cup block for sure. I feel like this could also be done on Nichols Road by adding to the Time building.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:50 am

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am This is what I'd like to see. 4-6 stories of apartments added to the shorter buildings while maintaining the traditional facades.

On which block could you see this happening, besides the Classic Cup block? Most every block on the Plaza is backed by a garage. I don’t see how it’s possible to build up without replacing a parking structure, many of which are fairly new.

The parking garage across from the book store is an especially poor design and it's right across the street from a large garage and tall building

If any part of the plaza should change this would be it.

I would take it out, add a second level of retail and a couple floors of offices or residents over top

^ Are you talking about the garage on the south side of 47th across the street from B&N? It’s brand new!

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:26 am Start with the Classic Cup block for sure. I feel like this could also be done on Nichols Road by adding to the Time building.

I don’t see how you build up on the Time Building block without tearing down that building.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:36 am ^ Are you talking about the garage on the south side of 47th across the street from B&N? It’s brand new!

It's been there at least 20 years

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:41 am

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:26 am Start with the Classic Cup block for sure. I feel like this could also be done on Nichols Road by adding to the Time building.

I don’t see how you build up on the Time Building block without tearing down that building.

Maybe we just maintain the facade? I'm not too constrained by reality given that I have no understanding of structural engineering.

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:48 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:36 am ^ Are you talking about the garage on the south side of 47th across the street from B&N? It’s brand new!

It's been there at least 20 years

Besides the Halls block, this would likely be the newest garage on the Plaza. The garage behind the old Houston’s would be a better choice since it’s very old. But, again, hard to tear out that garage when there is an empty green field a block to the north.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:54 am

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:48 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:36 am ^ Are you talking about the garage on the south side of 47th across the street from B&N? It’s brand new!

It's been there at least 20 years

Besides the Halls block, this would likely be the newest garage on the Plaza. The garage behind the old Houston’s would be a better choice since it’s very old. But, again, hard to tear out that garage when there is an empty green field a block to the north.

The green field has different owners. It’s conjecture but it could be easier to tear down a garage.

Highwoods didn’t sell that empty lot

^Yes, I know the field is not owned by the Plaza. But, it begs the questions:
1. If the demand is strong for residential on the Plaza, why the hell haven’t those lots been developed?
2. Have they not been developed because the demand is not there? If so, the more expense proposition of tearing down a highly used, existing garage probably doesn’t make sense either.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:59 pm ^Yes, I know the field is not owned by the Plaza. But, it begs the questions:
1. If the demand is strong for residential on the Plaza, why the hell haven’t those lots been developed?
2. Have they not been developed because the demand is not there? If so, the more expense proposition of tearing down a highly used, existing garage probably doesn’t make sense either.

If you're referring to the empty green field north of the Residence Inn on 46th Terrace...

1. You can thank neighborhood push back for the previous mixed-use (apartments/retail/hotel) development plans being shelved.
2. There is plenty of demand in the area and it's ripe for development. However, area residents (particularly those in the surrounding condos) were strongly opposed to the previous development plan of those lots and the adjacent Commerce Bank. Their main concerns were increased traffic, parking, and their condo views being blocked. Furthermore, they were strongly opposed to the slight requested deviation from the "Plaza bowl" height recommendations.

You can also look across the street to the denied renovation of the Plaza Medical Building into luxury senior-living housing for nearly the same reasons.

These are the sites I have in mind.



Plaza Central Parking at 47th and Broadway in particular seems tailor-made to be added onto.



Many of the garages have facades banal enough that they could easily be replaced without damaging any historic character. The garage on Wornall is a good example.



Or the garage at Pennsylvania and Ward. Apartments here would even get views of Brush Creek.



But like I said before, the new structures should look as though they were part of the original development, unlike some of the PoMo garbage around the plaza's periphery.

As much as I share this board's frustration with Clay Chastain, I still find myself fascinated with some of the renderings he throws out, like this. I could see buildings like these along Ward where the garage is. They're also in the scale I was imagining. They'll just need to look a bit less....Parisian.

You can't just cookie cutter out from a satellite map the seen garages. For example, a new garage and building behind Classic Cup would likely require the tear down of all the buildings in that block since many are built on the existing garage. I'm fine with it in that particular case since the western building of that block isn't historic and the others might be sacrificed. Others would freak if you suggested touching CC. The only other block that I see as a possibility is the Plaza III block. The others would greatly affect historic buildings or were built too recently to be torn out. (The garage where the Apple Store is was just finished!)

On the topic of undeveloped green fields, construction fencing and a trailer just went up on a portion of the old Colonial Court Apartments site. This is right across the street from the 46 Summit development, so I'm guess this will just be a staging site for that project.

There had been a sign up on this site from Price Brothers that just said "For Information". I'm not sure if they were/are looking to sell it, or just looking for tenants. I didn't see that sign up today. I'm not sure if there is any significance there.

Seriously people. if you live in an apartment next to the plaza it is literally a three block walk to get ALL THE WAY ACROSS the Plaza. FIVE if you want to get from the west to east end. How is adding some apartments in the "actual" Plaza going to improve the built environment? It's already mixed use.

The plaza needs, like it's original iteration, a pharmacy and a grocery store. That's two solid anchor retail spaces that make the remaining available spaces more scarce and therefore more valuable.

I'm trying to think of Plaza type developments in other cities I've been to and I swear there is always a CVS in every one of them.

SAVE THE PLAZA. BRING A PHARMACY.

This is my take away from this thread:
The plaza is a total joke because it is losing all its high end retail-> The plaza needs a pharmacy and neighborhood amenities to get its luster back!

My take away: the Plaza was once a thriving neighborhood. Then the plaza became a thriving luxury mall. Now the plaza has become degraded and is good at a lot but a master of none. To survive, they must either return to being a neighborhood or try to become very luxurious in an area that probably can’t support many of the ultra luxury brands that actually are doing well.

^A balance of neighborhood and broader variety than just a mall... broader nightlife like jazz/blues/folk clubs, perhaps live theatre, etc. Walking around the Plaza recently am seeing fewer carrying bags from stores during the busiest times. Seems to be becoming a restaurant/bar district more than shopping center now. Cut retail from 100 spots to about 75-85 and mix it up more. The Plaza used to have a better balance 20+ years ago yet was THE regional draw. With online shopping it's different now and the answer may be to simply cut down retail stores by about 25% and turn it into a real urbane mixed use district - and more residential above retail would boost that up a bit more. Changing Nichols Rd to pedestrian only would bring something fresh.

There is no one simple solution that some here keep trolling, it needs a lot of transitional changes per the above and it's all doable over time. And KC could use another true urban neighborhood - the Plaza is the shortest path to creating another one.

kboish wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:23 am This is my take away from this thread:
The plaza is a total joke because it is losing all its high end retail-> The plaza needs a pharmacy and neighborhood amenities to get its luster back!

You got it!

Preferably a 4-6 story pharmacy, though.