2014 Downtown Housing Report

[earthling]

Just came out this month...
http://www.downtownkc.org/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Downtown Core Population 9,549
Greater Downtown Neighborhoods 10,350
Total Downtown Population 19,899
Male 51%
Female 49%
Average Age 36.1
Bachelor’s Degree or higher 51%
Median Household Income $61,491

Much more in PDF.

[taxi]

Interesting that they did not include condo sales info or housing projects in development, as they have in previous years. I wonder if anyone will ever buy a condo downtown again.

[flyingember]

Interesting that they did not include condo sales info or housing projects in development, as they have in previous years. I wonder if anyone will ever buy a condo downtown again.

I bet we'll see some older apartment buildings slowly convert to condos

there's obviously lots of different variables but owner rental price to expenses will become a big part of it. if you have an older building that can't demand higher rents and maintenance expenses jump, it's a location not near transit so you need to get people that can afford to live downtown + afford a car and such then you have a building more likely to be sold as condos as profitability drops.

[loftguy]

Interesting that they did not include condo sales info or housing projects in development, as they have in previous years. I wonder if anyone will ever buy a condo downtown again.

Condos killed Jesus.

[earthling]

Renting is a national trend lately. The Plaza condo market seems to be doing pretty well otherwise.

BTW, here are apts/condos that have (or will have) Google Fiber, about 400 buildings/complexes so far...
https://fiber.google.com/propertymanage ... partments/

[ThorsteinVeblen]

As momentum continues to build downtown more individuals will want to own a permanent residence. Two condos just sold on my floor in WST in the same week for fair market prices. More people are interested in living DT and that will only grow. Being able to get 3.5% down will be a big hurdle for some buildings as a lot of owners are currently renting their units. Also, a lot of owners are still trying to sell their units for 2006 prices when they're worth 1/2 that in the current market which results in no buyers willing to pay 400k+ for 2bd 2.5bth. I could see the old Federal Reserve Building being converted to condos, especially if demand picks up over the next 2 years. The construction of the new YMCA would also go a long way for that stretch of road. Condo demand for places like KC occurs during the expansion-height phase of a real estate cycle.

[loftguy]

As momentum continues to build downtown more individuals will want to own a permanent residence. Two condos just sold on my floor in WST in the same week for fair market prices. More people are interested in living DT and that will only grow. Being able to get 3.5% down will be a big hurdle for some buildings as a lot of owners are currently renting their units. Also, a lot of owners are still trying to sell their units for 2006 prices when they're worth 1/2 that in the current market which results in no buyers willing to pay 400k+ for 2bd 2.5bth. I could see the old Federal Reserve Building being converted to condos, especially if demand picks up over the next 2 years. The construction of the new YMCA would also go a long way for that stretch of road. Condo demand for places like KC occurs during the expansion-height phase of a real estate cycle.

First: What is the 3.5% down that you reference? I can't make sense of what you were trying to say.

Second: Values did not drop 50%. Actually values now are relatively the same as they were in 2006, based on recent sales and that is amazing, because condo financing continues to be so onerous.

Third: I'll just stop there..............

[KCtoBrooklyn]

First: What is the 3.5% down that you reference? I can't make sense of what you were trying to say.

I think he is referring to the fact that in order for a buyer to be able to use an FHA loan (which requires 3.5% down as opposed to minimum of 5% for a conventional loan) a building has to be FHA approved. One of the key factors is the ratio of owners vs renters in a building.

[taxi]

You mentioned Third in your previous post.

[loftguy]

You mentioned Third in your previous post.

Yeah, take your pick "no one willing to spend 400K for a condo" or "Condo demand for places like KC occurs during the expansion-height phase of a real estate cycle".

It's like having the 'truth' quoted to me from someones bible. A lot of room for interpretation and belief.

edit: Kind of like "No one wants to live downtown." or "Why would anyone live downtown when there are such nice houses in Lee's Summit?"

[DaveKCMO]

edit: Kind of like "No one wants to live downtown." or "Why would anyone live downtown when there are such nice houses in Lee's Summit?"

i heard this exact question from someone while touring the folger's buildings last week. i was like: "how much more proof do you need, lady?"

[chingon]

edit: Kind of like "No one wants to live downtown." or "Why would anyone live downtown when there are such nice houses in Lee's Summit?"

i heard this exact question from someone while touring the folger's buildings last week. i was like: "how much more proof do you need, lady?"

In all fairness, I often find myself in suburban areas of this and other cities and find myself wondering, "Why would anyone live here when there are such nice homes and neighborhoods in the city?"

[taxi]

One man buys a nickel sack, another buys a Cadillac.

[grovester]

You mentioned Third in your previous post.

Yeah, take your pick "no one willing to spend 400K for a condo" or "Condo demand for places like KC occurs during the expansion-height phase of a real estate cycle".

It's like having the 'truth' quoted to me from someones bible. A lot of room for interpretation and belief.

edit: Kind of like "No one wants to live downtown." or "Why would anyone live downtown when there are such nice houses in Lee's Summit?"

After the folgers tour, I felt the urge to indulge in some urban real estate p0rn. Was surprised what was available for reasonable prices. I'm going to quit trying to convince my better half to move and just buy a second place.

Imagine what the real money could/does buy.

[loftguy]

You mentioned Third in your previous post.

Yeah, take your pick "no one willing to spend 400K for a condo" or "Condo demand for places like KC occurs during the expansion-height phase of a real estate cycle".

It's like having the 'truth' quoted to me from someones bible. A lot of room for interpretation and belief.

edit: Kind of like "No one wants to live downtown." or "Why would anyone live downtown when there are such nice houses in Lee's Summit?"

After the folgers tour, I felt the urge to indulge in some urban real estate p0rn. Was surprised what was available for reasonable prices. I'm going to quit trying to convince my better half to move and just buy a second place.

Imagine what the real money could/does buy.

At the present, the big money is often paying retail+, as there is competition alongside them and limited opportunities. The smaller plays have fewer relative lookers and some deals are being had. KC is very sleepy in some ways.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

Loftguy,

Relax a little, this is a community board for talking about city development and learning about new things and ideas. I'm guessing you are in the real estate business? If so, would you post an attachment on the comps for all the condos that have sold for 2006 market prices? So far, I haven't found any where sellers are getting prices equivalent to those at the height of the market. I get my information on a daily basis but like I said, you may have superior data or better knowledge of the immediate market. I'll just use the two condos mentioned above plus another one as an example. These condos are in the same building and all on the same floor, all information is factual to the best of my knowledge.

2006 Purchase Prices

Condo 1: $290,000, Improvements (substantiated by owner) : $80,000
Condo 1 Offer Price: $269,000 vs I.I. Value of $370,000
Loss: -27.2% below I.I.

Condo 2: $350,000, Improvements (substantiated by owner): $50,000
Condo 2 Sale Price: $290,000 vs I.I. Value of $400,000
Loss: -27.5% below I.I.

Condo 3: $297,000, Improvements (substantiated by owner): $45,000
Condo 2 Offer Price: $239,000 vs. I.I. Value of $342,000
Loss: -30.1% below I.I.

So within the last two weeks, within a very nice building, sale and offer prices are 27 - 30% below 2006 purchase values plus I.I. which are confirmed through the Jackson County Property Records. We can start to go into other buildings and do this same process and see sale prices and offer prices 25% - 50% below original 2006 market values plus I.I. If you made zero improvements to your unit losses are lower but most owners improve their properties.

Since I'm a condo owner myself, I'm hoping you can show all the sales occuring at 2006 - 2007 market prices considering I purchased mine at market bottom prices and have not witnessed actual offer or sale price appreciation.

Also, 3.5% refers to what a buyer is required to put down on a property and provides a significant advantage to a condo association if they can qualify for those lending standards, however, the owner/renter ratio has to be sufficiently high and in the current market those ratios have remained low. Thus, first time buyers are purchasing homes in mission or out south instead of DT eventhough they may prefer to live there. Most first time buyers don't have 10% - 20% to put down plus money to cover HOA fees as well.

I'm actually really excited to see DT and Midtown improving, which is why I joined this board, however, outside of certain suburban neighborhoods in KC I'm not seeing the numbers that show buyers are paying full retail for housing let alone condos as well as engaging in bidding wars. One Park Place is a good example of this, along with most other condos in KC.

Cheers!

[beautyfromashes]

^^
I'm sure loftguy will answer the questions you posted, but can we talk about 1PP? That place seems to be a disaster. First, when I first toured the place, the display units were hideous, not modern but New Jersey kitchy wannabe modern. I've been there a few times recently and there is no activity. There is nothing to attract people there. It's in the middle of nowhere. Most people who want to live in a loft/condo in the downtown area want to be able to walk out their door and experience the vitality of the city. 1PP just seems dead, like a library. Anyone have suggestions for that place?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

BOM,

Location is an issue but more than anything is the price. The units are very expensive for KC. The developer was able to secure a bridge loan to finish all the units and they are good quality but price and location are the big knock with that one. Almost all the North facing units sold though so occupancy is around 50%. It's the south facing units that aren't selling. Also, a lot of owners don't keep it as a permanent residence. HOA's are on the higher end as well but the amenities are great. With that being said, look at the sales on the plaza, units can't unload at the asking prices people are putting them on the market for. What I'm seeing is people listing their condos for several months, removing them from the listings, waiting, and then relisting them at a lower price. You can see some DT units went from $569,000 then to $529,000. Listing removed then relisted after several months at $469,000 then to $429,000. Same with the plaza as well. Units with tax abatements are doing better though, that is a big deal on an expensive property. Again, just opinion and what I'm seeing in the databases.

[beautyfromashes]

What amenities? The tiniest pool I had ever seen. It's nice that there is also one indoors for the winter, but that's about it. Their lobby area is like a church it's so quiet. They should have at least had a nice restaurant on the top level to pull people in. Something. You pay that much money, you want it to be where the action is. Parties, sports figures, limos, lights, etc. What's the draw? Sleepy.

[loftguy]

A couple of quick thoughts and that's all there's time for today.

I too can find examples of many people who lost their shorts, selling condos for far less than what they paid for them.

I can also develop other examples where condos are selling for more than what was paid in 2007.

Neither of those extremes reflects the marketplaca

Overall, we have a condo market that has held it's own, in the way of value, despite a complete change of game in the way that these purchases can and will be readily financed.

Wall Street Tower and One Park Place do not represent the general condo market in downtown KC. Especially 1PP. It is a textbook case on many levels and it would read more like a badly developed script.

If you want a detailed analysis of the condo market, (rather than my overview), contact a realtor and ask for a market analysis.