Broadway
- alejandro46
- Alameda Tower
- Posts: 1357
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- Location: King in the North(Land)
Re: Broadway
Gomers has plenty of spaces. The lot is just designed badly so they are kind of close to each other. Most people are at a liquor store for less than 20 minutes. Not sure why they think they need more parking.
Re: Broadway
If they expand onto their current parking lot, that may be under the required number of spaces.alejandro46 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:15 pm Gomers has plenty of spaces. The lot is just designed badly so they are kind of close to each other. Most people are at a liquor store for less than 20 minutes. Not sure why they think they need more parking.
Re: Broadway
Wasn’t their current building rebuilt not too long ago or was that a remodel? What type of boulevard standards are there that could help make this an improvement rather than further strip mall standards?
Re: Broadway
The building predates the boulevards design standards.
https://library.municode.com/mo/kansas_ ... -323BOPAST
https://library.municode.com/mo/kansas_ ... -323BOPAST
- Critical_Mass
- Colonnade
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:56 pm
- Location: Union Hill
Re: Broadway
When were those put in place? The original building was torn down and replaced with the current beige garbage in 2011.chaglang wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:17 am The building predates the boulevards design standards.
https://library.municode.com/mo/kansas_ ... -323BOPAST
Re: Broadway
2015-2016, according to the ordinance numbers.
Re: Broadway
If Gomer's successfully removes its (not old) building, which replaced an older, conforming building, then, like magic:
39th and Broadway will have lost all four of its urbanized corners. Fully Suburbanized (Ironic smiley)
All four corners were all in place in 1980. The fast food with drive-through was the first culprit, on the southwest corner. I want to say 1985. You could hear the loudspeaker from two blocks away, it was that loud.
Then, in 1988, a narrow apartment structure, odd-shaped, was demolished on the southeast corner, leaving the L-shaped mid-century structure that survived much longer, but did not abut the corner (a billboard replaced the building)
In 1990, Tobler's Flowers and other structures gave way to the suburban Walgreens on the northeast corner. You can catch a glimpse of its interior in the 1989 major motion picture, Mr. and Mrs. Bridge.
And now in 2022, Gomer's will pave over the northwest corner of this once urban Kansas City intersection.
39th and Broadway will have lost all four of its urbanized corners. Fully Suburbanized (Ironic smiley)
All four corners were all in place in 1980. The fast food with drive-through was the first culprit, on the southwest corner. I want to say 1985. You could hear the loudspeaker from two blocks away, it was that loud.
Then, in 1988, a narrow apartment structure, odd-shaped, was demolished on the southeast corner, leaving the L-shaped mid-century structure that survived much longer, but did not abut the corner (a billboard replaced the building)
In 1990, Tobler's Flowers and other structures gave way to the suburban Walgreens on the northeast corner. You can catch a glimpse of its interior in the 1989 major motion picture, Mr. and Mrs. Bridge.
And now in 2022, Gomer's will pave over the northwest corner of this once urban Kansas City intersection.
- FlippantCitizen
- Western Auto Lofts
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:29 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Broadway
So I went to the presentation the Gomers people did tonight. It's a definite double down on the current form of the building, with the only entrance facing the parking lot. Additionally windows will be not transparent, in contravention to the boulevard standards, for which they are trying to get a variance. The east door facing Broadway is strictly a service entrance and fire exit. No entrance from the street. When challenged on why not have a street facing entrance and why not have transparent windows the reason given was issues with the grade, that an east entrance could not be made ADA accessible and the windows would not line up properly. Under this plan the Broadway Butcher will be relocate to the building next door, and the inactive green space next to that will become outdoor seating and the butcher will start selling some prepared food.
Basically the line from this guy was parking, parking, parking. The net number of spots will not be significantly different, and the two parking lots would be graded and combined together instead of separated by a retaining wall. So basically he wants a "nicer" setup for parking while expanding the building. The number of spots isn't really driving this. The one valid point was that the curb cut on Broadway was so close to the 39th street intersection that it was dangerous and sub optimal. Point well taken but I'm not exactly going to applaud trading one shitty curb cut for a slightly less shitty one. All in all it's not exactly going change much about that corner, except losing the nice street oriented retail stall of the Broadway Butcher. Gomers will still reject the corner as it does now. But Gomers will be more entrenched with it's bad design on what should be a really important urban corner.
The owner kept diverting to the problem of the "street people" as he called them and identified the bus stop as "the problem." Complained ad nauseam about having his building graffitied. I understand that is frustrating and also that corner in particular can attract some unsavory loitering but it didn't seem to cross his mind that putting windows that employees and customers can see out of and an entrance facing the street might have the affect of discouraging that activity instead of presenting a blank brick canvas to the street that is unable to be monitored or seen in anyway from inside the building. When it comes down to it, his focus on the "street people" revealed the real reason in my opinion that a street facing entrance is not in the cards. Not engineering challenges with the grade as claimed, those could certainly be overcome if there was a will to do so. Basically they would rather keep their back turned rather than serving as eyes on the street. Need to send this guy a copy of Jane Jacobs. His problem getting graffitied will only continue.
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- Mark Twain Tower
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- Location: milky way, orion arm
Re: Broadway
Would be OK if the proposed building were rotated along Broadway and parking access from Washington. But if the 'street people' are the 'problem', Gomers should move.
Re: Broadway
Um. The original building had an entry that was almost on the sidewalk at Broadway. The ambient nonsense at that intersection hasn't changed in years. Gomer's was always being graffitied, always dealing with the bus stop, always dealing with "street people". If their 2011 building design was a response to those things, it's fair to say that that response has been a complete failure. So it's absolutely fair to question a design that walls the store off from Broadway, because there's no indication that it will do anything to solve the issues that the owner has identified.
- FlippantCitizen
- Western Auto Lofts
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- Location: Chicago
Re: Broadway
It was also questioned in the meeting why the expansion couldn't form an L shape and have access only from Washington. The reply was the city traffic people didn't like that idea, which maybe, but I held that response with a bit of skepticism.
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- Mark Twain Tower
- Posts: 8519
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm
- Location: milky way, orion arm
Re: Broadway
Broadway should have all future development with no direct car street access when possible, Main as well. Both from traffic and pedestrian perspective. Should be on the City plan for Bway.
Re: Broadway
Seems that the city traffic people would like a curb cut on Broadway even less.
From experience:
1. KCMO traffic engineers and Land Development don't like much of anything.
2. With a halfway decent rationale, you can get a project approved over their complaints.
The L-shape building would still have a floor level problem with relation to Broadway. However, there's NO requirement that a Broadway entrance to the building would need to be ADA compliant if the entry on Washington is. A door onto Broadway and small set of stairs would work.
From experience:
1. KCMO traffic engineers and Land Development don't like much of anything.
2. With a halfway decent rationale, you can get a project approved over their complaints.
The L-shape building would still have a floor level problem with relation to Broadway. However, there's NO requirement that a Broadway entrance to the building would need to be ADA compliant if the entry on Washington is. A door onto Broadway and small set of stairs would work.
Re: Broadway
Graffiti has been a problem for decades. My father's architectural office was on that corner, and before his building, he and Earl Salyers shared a house not far from that corner.
The city didn't enforce zoning "tagging" clean-up until they took graffiti off the police response list sometime around 1992. Before that time, the city actually cleaned up graffiti on private buildings (or more likely contracted with someone). In the early 1990s, the whole city response to graffiti changed (yes, I wrote another letter to Mayor Cleaver about that as well). There was a police chief change at that time, that I think had more to do with this than Cleaver replacing Berkley
Despite this KCMO change for the worse, which IMHO increased tolerance for graffiti throughout town, the overall Jane Jacobs approach remains correct. Vigilance aka "eyes on the street" is the best prophylaxis for street problems, like taggers or broken windows.
The city didn't enforce zoning "tagging" clean-up until they took graffiti off the police response list sometime around 1992. Before that time, the city actually cleaned up graffiti on private buildings (or more likely contracted with someone). In the early 1990s, the whole city response to graffiti changed (yes, I wrote another letter to Mayor Cleaver about that as well). There was a police chief change at that time, that I think had more to do with this than Cleaver replacing Berkley
Despite this KCMO change for the worse, which IMHO increased tolerance for graffiti throughout town, the overall Jane Jacobs approach remains correct. Vigilance aka "eyes on the street" is the best prophylaxis for street problems, like taggers or broken windows.
Re: Broadway
any idea if this will be rejected, as it should be? liquor stores are a dime a dozen, and the building is more replaceable by design and function standards.
Re: Broadway
Is the old IHOP at Linwood coming down?
- Midtownkid
- Hotel President
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- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:27 pm
- Location: Roanoke, KCMO
Re: Broadway
It’s coming down. Looked to be at least halfway demolished this evening.
- Highlander
- City Center Square
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- Location: Houston
Re: Broadway
It's a tiny space so additional parking for the Comfort Inn is likely. That's one ugly hotel.Midtownkid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:29 pmSomething is going on, there is a construction fence up. I'd imagine it's going away. The horribly named 'P. More and More' BBQ place didn't last.
I suppose we will see a parking lot or empty lot there soon.