KCRag Forum

http://www.pitch.com/FastPitch/archives ... d-broadway

What? How?

Damn, that is sickening.

I feel like I'm missing something. How can it be that we allow drive-thru restaurants to be built in the Loop? I'm nearly apoplectic. This just makes no sense at all to me and I'm baffled that it could be approved so easily.

When i first glanced at the article, I was pretty excited, thinking they found a way to incorporate the existing building into the plans...using the large garage door as a drive-through. That would be too creative for any planner though.

Put the Jimmy Johns on any existing parking lot next to I-70, and I'm OK with it. Why tear down a building though?

it's by no means the best use of the plot

think about it this way. Jimmy John's is paying to take out a building that in the scheme of things, doesn't have much value downtown. it's on a major street and doesn't provide any more density than the new use. the new use is something no one will care about tearing out. it's not like it's relatively low-density house facing 9th (Quality Hill Condos) that will sit there for 50+ years. it's a drive through restaurant. it can be bought out and torn out very quickly and turned into something better

and it will provide sales taxes for the city, I bet well in excess of the current site's total taxes right there. and for once, it is adding jobs downtown. not wonderful ones, but it's something

and it provides more food options downtown, which is sorely needed. and if you think about it, if any fast food company wants to locate downtown that's a good sign they see profit in it.

it's yet another sign the city may be turning the corner on downtown in general

The building wasn't anything special, but that section of Broadway had a nice building wall aesthetic. I hate to lose it.

The lot next to the new Thistle location in River Market would have been a good location.

flyingember wrote:it's by no means the best use of the plot

think about it this way. Jimmy John's is paying to take out a building that in the scheme of things, doesn't have much value downtown. it's on a major street and doesn't provide any more density than the new use. so they're incurring that cost the new use is something no one will care about tearing out. it's not like it's relatively low-density house facing 9th (Quality Hill Condos) that will sit there for 50+ years. it's a drive through restaurant. it can be bought out and torn out very quickly and turned into something better

and it will provide sales taxes for the city, I bet well in excess of the current site. and for once, it is adding jobs downtown. not wonderful ones, but it's something

and it provides more food options downtown, which is sorely needed.

You've polished this turd quite well. Unfortunately, this is a shit project for the neighborhood and (IMHO) reveals once again the shortsightedness and/or lack of power possessed by KCMO Planning. I just don't get why we struggle to save buildings like the Cosby, etc. if we're just going to build awful suburban out-parcel projects right down the street.

a sandwich shop is the leading edge of restaurants. to get one wanting to come into downtown where workers are supposedly moving away from is a huge vote of confidence

so if I seem positive that KC's getting new retail interest inside downtown that's not polishing a turb. that's giving credit to the city for making tough decisions over multiple mayors and getting results that show they were the right one

it's not perfect but we're not yet to the point of being able to ask for perfect

there's a lot of companies that see new and it inspires confidence. and sometimes all we need to impart is confidence in downtown to show it's worth locating here just like seeing a crane on the skyline a shiny new business is important to have. even if it's just a drive through jimmy johns

flyingember wrote:a sandwich shop is the leading edge of restaurants. to get one wanting to come into downtown where workers are supposedly moving away from is a huge vote of confidence

jimmy johns has been open over at 11th and Grand for a year or two. this isn't exactly unprecedented or a huge "get." esp. since downtown already has sandwich shops like quizno's, subway, jason's, etc.

flyingember wrote:a sandwich shop is the leading edge of restaurants. to get one wanting to come into downtown where workers are supposedly moving away from is a huge vote of confidence

so if I seem positive that KC's getting new retail interest inside downtown that's not polishing a turb. that's giving credit to the city for making tough decisions over multiple mayors and getting results that show they were the right one

it's not perfect but we're not yet to the point of being able to ask for perfect

there's a lot of companies that see new and it inspires confidence. and sometimes all we need to impart is confidence in downtown to show it's worth locating here just like seeing a crane on the skyline a shiny new business is important to have. even if it's just a drive through jimmy johns

There is already a Subway, Quizino's and Jason's Deli downtown. Having another shitty sub shop move in is no harbinger of anything. Sub shops are like weeds.

flyingember wrote:a sandwich shop is the leading edge of restaurants. to get one wanting to come into downtown where workers are supposedly moving away from is a huge vote of confidence

so if I seem positive that KC's getting new retail interest inside downtown that's not polishing a turb. that's giving credit to the city for making tough decisions over multiple mayors and getting results that show they were the right one

I don't think building a suburban out-parcel restaurant downtown is a vote of confidence. A vote of confidence is a 4-story building with apartments on the top three floors and a Jimmy John's on the bottom. A drive-thru restaurant is the quick money, thoughtless, suburban way of doing things. It's shitty, and it is essentially replacing blight with shinier (polished) blight.

flyingember wrote:a sandwich shop is the leading edge of restaurants. to get one wanting to come into downtown where workers are supposedly moving away from is a huge vote of confidence

so if I seem positive that KC's getting new retail interest inside downtown that's not polishing a turb. that's giving credit to the city for making tough decisions over multiple mayors and getting results that show they were the right one

it's not perfect but we're not yet to the point of being able to ask for perfect

there's a lot of companies that see new and it inspires confidence. and sometimes all we need to impart is confidence in downtown to show it's worth locating here just like seeing a crane on the skyline a shiny new business is important to have. even if it's just a drive through jimmy johns

This is completely absurd. There is nothing "leading edge" about Jimmy John's. There is already one downtown that fits the neighborhood much better. There are plently of other places this could be built that would not require a teardown.

I am not giving anyone credit, nor are we "moving forward" because a drive through Jimmy John's is popping up. Nothing about a drive through JJ's inspires confidence in anyone that is going to contribute anything of value to downtown KCMO.

.

Does this new Jimmy John's mean that the one at 11th and Grand will close?

pash wrote:This is going to brutalize what had been a pretty decent stretch of street.

it's 8 blocks, both sides = 16 blocks

the side of Bartle Hall takes up 2 of them
parking is 5.5 worth, give of take
empty buildings takes up 1.5-2
the side of buildings with no entrance takes up three

that's 12 of the 16 blocks right there

the back side of two churches takes up 2 more

that's 14 worth. maybe 13 being optimistic.

leaving less than 25% of the block as actual urban development

shinatoo wrote:

flyingember wrote:a sandwich shop is the leading edge of restaurants. to get one wanting to come into downtown where workers are supposedly moving away from is a huge vote of confidence

so if I seem positive that KC's getting new retail interest inside downtown that's not polishing a turb. that's giving credit to the city for making tough decisions over multiple mayors and getting results that show they were the right one

it's not perfect but we're not yet to the point of being able to ask for perfect

there's a lot of companies that see new and it inspires confidence. and sometimes all we need to impart is confidence in downtown to show it's worth locating here just like seeing a crane on the skyline a shiny new business is important to have. even if it's just a drive through jimmy johns

There is already a Subway, Quizino's and Jason's Deli downtown. Having another shitty sub shop move in is no harbinger of anything. Sub shops are like weeds.

Two Subways! (one in City Center and one on Broadway). And is that one on 11th and Oak still there? And a Planet Sub!

Yea, this is stupid. I thought their thing was they deliver. Why do they need a drive-thru? Who drives through for a sub?

KCMax wrote:Why do they need a drive-thru? Who drives through for a sub?

Overweight Americans.

.

Perhaps, in light of this grand development, we could re-route the streetcar to drive thru the Jimmy Johns so the tourists can grab a bite without getting off of their asses. We could show them the KC way! Now, that would be cool.

pash wrote:

flyingember wrote:

pash wrote:This is going to brutalize what had been a pretty decent stretch of street.

it's 8 blocks ...

What's eight blocks? Your arbitrary delimiting of what I meant by "a pretty decent stretch of street"?

Broadway from about 7th to 12th is one of the most built-up streets in the city. There are maybe a half-dozen surface parking lots and a couple of garages, but every building in that stretch fronts the sidewalk and is basically a good urban edifice. Most are historic and would be architectural exemplars on any other street in the city.

Now knock down a brick building in the middle of all that, even an admittedly empty and unassuming one, and put in a disposable stucco piece of shit surrounded by a drive-through moat. It's going to suck.