2013 - 2014 College Basketball Season

[chaglang]

In fairness to ESPN, Mountaineer basketball is only the 4th most popular sport in the state, after Mountaineer football, pro-am strip mining, and intramural toxic spilling. Not surprised they didn't pick up the game.

[Highlander]

KU won't be receiving assistance from the state on new dorms for athletes.

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/14/48 ... quest.html

Good for the state legislature. There are degree programs at the university that are trying to cope with undersized and outdated facilities and the state has told them to raise the money privately. What's good for the goose .......

Plus, I do not think the living quarters arms race is quite as bad as Self makes it out to be.

[bobbyhawks]

KU does not need any additional publicity, but I think it is worth repeating... 10 straight conference titles is unbelievable. This team may be as likely to lose in the second round as they are to make the final four, but what Bill Self is able to do that nobody else could even come close to this year is phenomenal. Granted, he has the best talent in the league, but neither experience nor luck were able to overtake the Jayhawks this year. He has six 30 win seasons over the ten year span with one season still undecided. I still can't tell if the Big 12 is really great with one dominant team or if it is a league that performed well in the non-con and then began to decline. Regardless, there haven't been many off-nights for the teams in the league this year, and that could pay dividends in the tournament (one hopes).

[chaglang]

KU does not need any additional publicity, but I think it is worth repeating... 10 straight conference titles is unbelievable. This team may be as likely to lose in the second round as they are to make the final four, but what Bill Self is able to do that nobody else could even come close to this year is phenomenal. Granted, he has the best talent in the league, but neither experience nor luck were able to overtake the Jayhawks this year. He has six 30 win seasons over the ten year span with one season still undecided. I still can't tell if the Big 12 is really great with one dominant team or if it is a league that performed well in the non-con and then began to decline. Regardless, there haven't been many off-nights for the teams in the league this year, and that could pay dividends in the tournament (one hopes).

The most common retort I saw on Twitter had to do with them not playing in the ACC or (bizarrely) the SEC. Mellinger covered some of this in his column today. Even if you agree that the Big 12 is an inferior conference, there are a lot of other teams playing in worse major conferences than the Big 12 who haven't come close to this. Gonzaga couldn't do it in a mid-major, because it only takes one otherworldly year from a random team (St. Mary's) to end the streak. Even if you own that other team in the regular season (ala the year Texas settled for a tie with KU after beating them by 25 in Austin), it only takes a few bad nights against lesser opponents and the streak is history. And the college basketball, especially games on the road, in the dead of winter, seems designed to keep teams from doing what Bill Self has done. And that's before you consider the absurd amount of roster turnover that is the downside of having rosters full of kids good enough to play two years (max) before leaving for the NBA.

Out of curiosity, I looked up where each conference ranked in RPI over the last 10 years. What I found is that the Big East, B1G, ACC, and B12 all averaged a ranking between 3 and 3.3. But if you broke it down into 5 year segments, the Big 12 was much worse in Bill Self's first 5 years (average ranking above 5th), and much better in the last 5 (average ranking under 3). The B1G follows a similar trajectory. The Big East has always been good, but the ACC has taken a nosedive in the last 5 years. It went from being ranked no lower than 3rd in the first 5 years, to being ranked no higher than 5th. Which is a long way of saying: buzz off, Dukies.

It would have been more accurate to pull the actual RPI number, but I didn't have time for that. If anyone has time to look that up, I'd love to see it.

[bobbyhawks]

Since (and including) 2008, when KU won the title, the ACC has been over a full position in average ranking below the Big 12 in the Kenpom.com rankings. The Big 12 has occupied 15.3% of the Elite Eight positions over the 9 completed seasons within the last 10 years. The Big 12 has had 6 different schools make it to the Elite Eight since the 2005 season. By my count, the ACC has held only 8.3% of the Elite Eight slots, with only Duke and UNC reaching that far. Frankly, I assumed there was more of an indication of a faceplant by the Big 12, but the perception of the ACC seems to be mostly due to a few amazing UNC and Duke teams, three of which won the championship. The SEC, which also has a strong argument by Championships, had 4 schools reach the Elite Eight and matched the Big 12's 15.3% representation. On the top end, if you take a single team's ability to win a Championship as an indication of the conference, the SEC and ACC have a strong argument of superiority over the Big 12.

In reality, though, there is no comparison of the SEC to those other conferences if you are talking about the strength of the conference as a whole. In that 10 year span, the SEC's Kenpom.com ranking averaged at 4.9, the ACC at 3.0, and the Big 12 at 3.3. Since 2007-08, the Big 12's average ranking was 2.4, the ACC was 3.6, and the SEC was 5.9. That is what is amazing to me. The numbers indicate that the bottom of the Big 12 has been quite strong. That nobody else vs. KU can be Kentucky to the SEC's Florida, or Duke to the ACC's UNC is pretty unusual.

[Highlander]

Since (and including) 2008, when KU won the title, the ACC has been over a full position in average ranking below the Big 12 in the Kenpom.com rankings. The Big 12 has occupied 15.3% of the Elite Eight positions over the 9 completed seasons within the last 10 years. The Big 12 has had 6 different schools make it to the Elite Eight since the 2005 season. By my count, the ACC has held only 8.3% of the Elite Eight slots, with only Duke and UNC reaching that far. Frankly, I assumed there was more of an indication of a faceplant by the Big 12, but the perception of the ACC seems to be mostly due to a few amazing UNC and Duke teams, three of which won the championship. The SEC, which also has a strong argument by Championships, had 4 schools reach the Elite Eight and matched the Big 12's 15.3% representation. On the top end, if you take a single team's ability to win a Championship as an indication of the conference, the SEC and ACC have a strong argument of superiority over the Big 12.

In reality, though, there is no comparison of the SEC to those other conferences if you are talking about the strength of the conference as a whole. In that 10 year span, the SEC's Kenpom.com ranking averaged at 4.9, the ACC at 3.0, and the Big 12 at 3.3. Since 2007-08, the Big 12's average ranking was 2.4, the ACC was 3.6, and the SEC was 5.9. That is what is amazing to me. The numbers indicate that the bottom of the Big 12 has been quite strong. That nobody else vs. KU can be Kentucky to the SEC's Florida, or Duke to the ACC's UNC is pretty unusual.

Yea, great run for KU. I think they caught a bit of a break this year with OSU having major injury and off the court (on the court in the case of Smart) issues. I thought they would give KU everything they could handle and looked up to the task early on. The Big 12 is widely mentioned by pundits as the best top-to-bottom conference in college basketball (only the Big 10 gets equal treatment) so that's quite a feat.

[chingon]

I think they caught a bit of a break this year with OSU having major injury and off the court (on the court in the case of Smart) issues. I thought they would give KU everything they could handle and looked up to the task early on.

OSU was definitely the big threat (to KU fans, obviously they were something of a great white hope for underdog rooters and Jayhawk haters). I remember when Smart decided to come back thinking, o shit, there goes the streak.

But even as OSU has cooled, the rest of the conference has proved to be a bit of a whack a mole, in terms of whose playing at KU level in any given weeklong period. Great basketball to watch all season, including the noncon schedule.

[KCMax]

So is Mizzou dead or still on the bubble?

Also find it amusing that apparently Frank Martin is already on the hot seat in South Carolina for verbally abusing his players and disappointing on-court results. What a joke.

[AllThingsKC]

So is Mizzou dead or still on the bubble?

Dead. They will need at least 2 more wins to be a lock for the tournament. There's a 99% chance they lose on Saturday and an 70% chance they lose to whoever they play in the SEC Tourney.

Also find it amusing that apparently Frank Martin is already on the hot seat in South Carolina for verbally abusing his players and disappointing on-court results. What a joke.

Never should have left a winning K-State team in favor of a last-place South Carolina team.

[Highlander]

So is Mizzou dead or still on the bubble?

Dead. They will need at least 2 more wins to be a lock for the tournament. There's a 99% chance they lose on Saturday and an 70% chance they lose to whoever they play in the SEC Tourney.

Also find it amusing that apparently Frank Martin is already on the hot seat in South Carolina for verbally abusing his players and disappointing on-court results. What a joke.

Never should have left a winning K-State team in favor of a last-place South Carolina team.

If they lose to Tennessee, they'd pretty much have to win the SEC tourney to get in - as Tennessee, a fellow bubble team, gets a boost from the win and Mizzou loss. SEC gets Florida, Kentucky, Arkansas (sadly) and possibly Tennessee in. Arkansas and Tennessee have dubious resume's but the pigs have been playing well enough lately to make a case (sadly).

I agreed he should have stayed at KSU. SCar could care less about basketball - even though they did beat Kentucky.

Are you among those on TB calling for Haith's head? I think if Mizzou loses Brown and Clarkson (although the latter is a rather selfish player - and not really NBA caliber talent), scoring next year may be hard to come by. Haith will undoubtedly coach next year but it could be a very pivotal year for him.

[AllThingsKC]

If they lose to Tennessee, they'd pretty much have to win the SEC tourney to get in - as Tennessee, a fellow bubble team, gets a boost from the win and Mizzou loss. SEC gets Florida, Kentucky, Arkansas (sadly) and possibly Tennessee in. Arkansas and Tennessee have dubious resume's but the pigs have been playing well enough lately to make a case (sadly).

I suspect the SEC will get 4 teams in: Florida, Kentucky, Arkansas (maybe), and the winner of the Tennessee/Missouri game (which I'm already calling for Tennessee). I'd be surprised if Mizzou isn't one-and-done in the SEC Tournament. Maybe 2-and-done.

Are you among those on TB calling for Haith's head?

Well, sort of, but not really on TB. I wasn't fond of the hire 3 years ago, but decided to wait until Haith's 3rd year to reserve judgement. There's no question Mizzou's basketball program has only gotten worse since Haith took over. I understand he'll have at least 1 more year. While I hate to give him another year, I know it's needed to be absolutely sure the problem is with Haith.

[phxcat]

Since (and including) 2008, when KU won the title, the ACC has been over a full position in average ranking below the Big 12 in the Kenpom.com rankings. The Big 12 has occupied 15.3% of the Elite Eight positions over the 9 completed seasons within the last 10 years. The Big 12 has had 6 different schools make it to the Elite Eight since the 2005 season. By my count, the ACC has held only 8.3% of the Elite Eight slots, with only Duke and UNC reaching that far. Frankly, I assumed there was more of an indication of a faceplant by the Big 12, but the perception of the ACC seems to be mostly due to a few amazing UNC and Duke teams, three of which won the championship. The SEC, which also has a strong argument by Championships, had 4 schools reach the Elite Eight and matched the Big 12's 15.3% representation. On the top end, if you take a single team's ability to win a Championship as an indication of the conference, the SEC and ACC have a strong argument of superiority over the Big 12.

In reality, though, there is no comparison of the SEC to those other conferences if you are talking about the strength of the conference as a whole. In that 10 year span, the SEC's Kenpom.com ranking averaged at 4.9, the ACC at 3.0, and the Big 12 at 3.3. Since 2007-08, the Big 12's average ranking was 2.4, the ACC was 3.6, and the SEC was 5.9. That is what is amazing to me. The numbers indicate that the bottom of the Big 12 has been quite strong. That nobody else vs. KU can be Kentucky to the SEC's Florida, or Duke to the ACC's UNC is pretty unusual.

Yea, great run for KU. I think they caught a bit of a break this year with OSU having major injury and off the court (on the court in the case of Smart) issues. I thought they would give KU everything they could handle and looked up to the task early on. The Big 12 is widely mentioned by pundits as the best top-to-bottom conference in college basketball (only the Big 10 gets equal treatment) so that's quite a feat.

They've caught a few breaks- which is part of what you need to run a streak like that. Obviously, the officiating in the ISU game last year was huge, the fact that the statement above about them turning their roster over every year is just false- they had spent most of that time taking no more than 1 one and done and had the ability to develop high quality- but not the highest quality- players over time, including the bad luck of Brandon Rush having to return for his senior season, but the biggest break they received was probably when Blake Griffin, palying for a superior Oklahoma team, was injured for one game- that one game being the one game played between the two teams, allowing KU to win the conference by that one game. That being said, it is impressive that KU has kept themselves in position to take advantage of those breaks, while other programs such as Kentucky, UNC and Duke most certainly have not. As for the one and dones, this being the first year that KU has really jumped into that pool, I think that we will see how long KU can stay on top recruiting that way as soon as next year.

[Highlander]

I suspect the SEC will get 4 teams in: Florida, Kentucky, Arkansas (maybe), and the winner of the Tennessee/Missouri game (which I'm already calling for Tennessee). I'd be surprised if Mizzou isn't one-and-done in the SEC Tournament. Maybe 2-and-done.

Well, sort of, but not really on TB. I wasn't fond of the hire 3 years ago, but decided to wait until Haith's 3rd year to reserve judgement. There's no question Mizzou's basketball program has only gotten worse since Haith took over. I understand he'll have at least 1 more year. While I hate to give him another year, I know it's needed to be absolutely sure the problem is with Haith.

One of Mizzou's worse losses in a long time. The Baylor loss that pushed Snyder over the edge comes to mind. Mizzou needs to win the SEC tourney to get in now.

Arkansas pushed themselves pretty nearly off the bubble today with the bad 25 point loss to Alabama. Kentucky gets beat again further diminishing their only real good wins (although they did beat SMU before the Mustangs got rolling). Bad loss or the pigs and they looked very bad in the process. Arky has work to do to. Right now - it's Kentucky, Florida and Tennessee in for the SEC. Arky only has an outside chance given that every other bubble team has been winning.

[AllThingsKC]

Do you think Mizzou's problems have more to do with Haith or the players?

[Highlander]

Do you think Mizzou's problems have more to do with Haith or the players?

It's like the presidency - the buck stops at the head coach.

Frankly, it's ultimately Haith's fault and it's partly because he's got a lot of selfish players that don't share the ball and he doesn't seem to want to get that under control. Clarkson and Brown should have been benched today. The quality of their shot selection was horrible. Half the shots were playground prayers with double and even triple pumps. It was actually embarrassing to watch, it looked like an uncoached rec league team. If I were the coach, I'd rather have Rector and Corey Haith out there than let that ever happen again. Had I been Jones or Rosburg or even Post, I'd have been pretty pissed about not getting the ball. They were left alone because Tennessee defenders figured out the ball wasn't going inside. One of the worst Missouri efforts I've ever seen. Haith needs to be embarrassed.

[shinatoo]

Unmotivated players are a direct reflection on the head coach. And these guys are clearly unmotivated. Last years team lacked discipline. Also on the head coach.

[KCtonic]

Unmotivated players are a direct reflection on the head coach. And these guys are clearly unmotivated. Last years team lacked discipline. Also on the head coach.

I have to agree. Very weak season from Mizzou and Haith is going to have to face the fallout.

[shaffe]

I have to agree. Very weak season from Mizzou and Haith is going to have to face the fallout.

What fallout? He's not getting fired (nor should he). He's not really even close to losing his job (nor should he be yet). He's probably able to recruit better now that the Miami thing is done and over with than he has been at any point in his coaching career at Missouri, and has done fairly decent since his first two classes he had to cobble together thanks in large part to the 0 signees and extremely unbalanced classes he inherited.

[Highlander]

I have to agree. Very weak season from Mizzou and Haith is going to have to face the fallout.

What fallout? He's not getting fired (nor should he). He's not really even close to losing his job (nor should he be yet). He's probably able to recruit better now that the Miami thing is done and over with than he has been at any point in his coaching career at Missouri, and has done fairly decent since his first two classes he had to cobble together thanks in large part to the 0 signees and extremely unbalanced classes he inherited.

Haith will get the time to prove himself (or not prove himself). But the performance of his teams have to be raising some red flags right now. He's cobbled together some decent players but his teams other than year one haven't been close to being the sum of their parts. Whether he tolerates selfish play and poor decisions because he has to due to depth issues remains to be seen but that's been the trademark of the two teams he has put together since the initial year. I've not seen great development of players either but that could be a function of not having anyone other than Rosburg, Ross and Brown more than a year.

[Highlander]

Haith is just pathetic. He is beyond disgusting as a coach.

Watching his teams play is like watching a train wreck.
Even Sundvold must choke back the blatant stupidity displayed by his team's shot selection, passing and complete lack of mental acuity.
The horrible flops at the end of last season and this one is beyond belief.
He doesn't even know his players, he would have coached the Olympic dream team into the ground.

Why can't MU find a solid basketball coach?

Haith is going to be around for a while. Alden is not going to make a hire which nobody in the basketball world (incl Mizzou fans) quite understood at the time and then turn around and fire him after 3 or 4 seasons. His credibility is at stake. Haith was sold as a great recruiter held back by the football first mentality at Miami and while he brings in talent, it's increasingly clear he struggles to coach them. But he'll continue to perform well enough to extend his stay. If Clarkson and Brown leave, Mizzou will probably suck next year but have the opportunity to be pretty good the following year as a lot of young talent should mature. If Haith cannot coach that team into a contender - then he probably will never have a contender at Mizzou.