On-going downtown development projects

Issues concerning Downtown as described by the Downtown Council. River to 31st Street, I-35 to Bruce R. Watkins.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:26 pm

TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:13 pm
I want tall buildings. All the infill is nice, but the skyline last changed when they built the skylons
Uh, you don’t count the Lights or Kauffman Center or Loews as part of the skyline?

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by KCTOGA » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:08 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:26 pm
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:13 pm
I want tall buildings. All the infill is nice, but the skyline last changed when they built the skylons
Uh, you don’t count the Lights or Kauffman Center or Loews as part of the skyline?
I consider a real skyline changer a 30 plus business tower. I say business tower because of the difference between business and residential floor heights. Hell yes I want something, anything, at least that will rival 1201 Walnut.Think that Strata building will be close as anything we've had in a while.Still holding out hope for the lot just north of Sprint Center. Course I still have that dream about 3 women and....................Oh well!

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beautyfromashes
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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:21 pm

KCTOGA wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:08 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:26 pm
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:13 pm
I want tall buildings. All the infill is nice, but the skyline last changed when they built the skylons
Uh, you don’t count the Lights or Kauffman Center or Loews as part of the skyline?
I consider a real skyline changer a 30 plus business tower. I say business tower because of the difference between business and residential floor heights. Hell yes I want something, anything, at least that will rival 1201 Walnut.Think that Strata building will be close as anything we've had in a while.Still holding out hope for the lot just north of Sprint Center. Course I still have that dream about 3 women and....................Oh well!
I can understand that dream...the first one, I mean. My dream has always been a situation where all the empty buildings DT have been already redone so developers have to actually start new construction of tall buildings. I guess I just want to bask in the glow that that is actually happening. It’s taken awhile. You can continue on with your equally good dream now.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by GRID » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:36 pm

moderne wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:34 pm
Some are easily impressed. Infill is nice in lieu of height.
Don't get me wrong, Downtown KC is seeing some nice infill. I'm just saying those two photos are nearly identical. You would have to be a development nerd to really find the differences without studying the photos and even then, there are not many changes.

If you were to take this same shot from a little higher elevation, you would notice a lot more of the new infill construction. This same shot pre P&L district would be a pretty substantial difference, but KC's skyline of signature buildings has not really changed at all since the late 1980's.

This video shows how much is going on in the Crossroads area (at least around Main St). Lots of infill. There is no reason that downtown KC couldn't get some office towers at the same time though. Well other than companies there being in love with suburban parking lots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJOf71fvGXo

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by Chris Stritzel » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:34 pm

GRID wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:36 pm
moderne wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:34 pm
Some are easily impressed. Infill is nice in lieu of height.
Don't get me wrong, Downtown KC is seeing some nice infill. I'm just saying those two photos are nearly identical. You would have to be a development nerd to really find the differences without studying the photos and even then, there are not many changes.

If you were to take this same shot from a little higher elevation, you would notice a lot more of the new infill construction. This same shot pre P&L district would be a pretty substantial difference, but KC's skyline of signature buildings has not really changed at all since the late 1980's.

This video shows how much is going on in the Crossroads area (at least around Main St). Lots of infill. There is no reason that downtown KC couldn't get some office towers at the same time though. Well other than companies there being in love with suburban parking lots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJOf71fvGXo
That video shows good progress on the City Club Apartments and 1800 Walnut. As for me being easily impressed, I see changes in my original pictures shared butt hat's because I'm, not always in KC.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by FangKC » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:36 am

I think the Mainmark Building is an example of how to do infill in Greater Downtown, and also get some height, instead of just a lot of 3-5 story infill buildings. It's a 12-story building on a narrow footprint. A building like this fits perfectly on corners, and mid-block between existing 1-4 story buildings. It's a good building type for apartments, and also smaller commercial offices that incubate future companies. The only challenge is providing parking for its' added height. That is where you can do interior block garages, and wrap those with a narrow band of apartments to hide them. However, each block is different, so it will be a situational application.

In larger, densely-built cities, you see a lot of buildings like this.

I'd like to see how much it would cost to build a duplicate-sized modern version of the Mainmark, and compare it to larger projects like One Light and Two Light in cost. A building of this size might be more manageable financially for smaller developers, and possibly more could get built than waiting for 20+ story buildings.

I'm not saying we shouldn't build 3-5 story infill buildings. I'm just saying the Mainmark is a good infill type in the right locations.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by flyingember » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:24 am

approx 5700 sq feet per floor at 12 floots
~68000 sq ft

Two Light was $120 million for 520,000 sq ft at $230/sq ft.
A Mainmark copy would cost about $15.6 million.

Arterra is 200,000 sq feet. At $50 million that would be $250 per sq foot.
A Mainmark copy would be $17 million.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by flyingember » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:45 pm

Image

Image

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by normalthings » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:21 am

I wasn’t sure if this was the right place to post this or not.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kc ... um=ios_app

Teresa Loar filed an ordinance to prevent the capping of TIF. While I agree with the action, I’m sure that I don’t agree with her motive.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:13 am

normalthings wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:21 am
I wasn’t sure if this was the right place to post this or not.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kc ... um=ios_app

Teresa Loar filed an ordinance to prevent the capping of TIF. While I agree with the action, I’m sure that I don’t agree with her motive.
It's a trap!

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by beautyfromashes » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:39 am

Why was she the one to do this? It seems in city councilpeople should be fighting to keep our development tools in place. I don’t care much what her motive is, it’s the right thing to do and how the two mayoral candidates respond will determine my vote in June.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by smh » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:18 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:39 am
Why was she the one to do this? It seems in city councilpeople should be fighting to keep our development tools in place. I don’t care much what her motive is, it’s the right thing to do and how the two mayoral candidates respond will determine my vote in June.
"Jolie Justus supports unlimited giveaways to luxury developers."

(music brightens)

"Quinton Lucas voted against unlimited giveaways to luxury developers."

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by kcjak » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:26 am

smh wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:18 am
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:39 am
Why was she the one to do this? It seems in city councilpeople should be fighting to keep our development tools in place. I don’t care much what her motive is, it’s the right thing to do and how the two mayoral candidates respond will determine my vote in June.
"Jolie Justus supports unlimited giveaways to luxury developers."

(music brightens)

"Quinton Lucas voted against unlimited giveaways to luxury developers."
Is this a joke? Where does this information come from? It's entirely possible they feel this way, but I'm skeptical that Justus would state that she supports unlimited giveaways to luxury developers. Her statement on incentives in the Cityscene article, I believe, mentions that she supports incentives on a case-by-case basis.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by smh » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:39 am

kcjak wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:26 am
smh wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:18 am
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:39 am
Why was she the one to do this? It seems in city councilpeople should be fighting to keep our development tools in place. I don’t care much what her motive is, it’s the right thing to do and how the two mayoral candidates respond will determine my vote in June.
"Jolie Justus supports unlimited giveaways to luxury developers."

(music brightens)

"Quinton Lucas voted against unlimited giveaways to luxury developers."
Is this a joke? Where does this information come from? It's entirely possible they feel this way, but I'm skeptical that Justus would state that she supports unlimited giveaways to luxury developers. Her statement on incentives in the Cityscene article, I believe, mentions that she supports incentives on a case-by-case basis.
It was in reference to Loar's proposal being a trap. Loar pretty clearly not a member of the #justusleague from what I've observed.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by normalthings » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:45 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:39 am
Why was she the one to do this? It seems in city councilpeople should be fighting to keep our development tools in place. I don’t care much what her motive is, it’s the right thing to do and how the two mayoral candidates respond will determine my vote in June.
Jolie is against capping our development tools.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by beautyfromashes » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:51 am

normalthings wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:45 am
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:39 am
Why was she the one to do this? It seems in city councilpeople should be fighting to keep our development tools in place. I don’t care much what her motive is, it’s the right thing to do and how the two mayoral candidates respond will determine my vote in June.
Jolie is against capping our development tools.
Actions will win the day. We’ll get an exact understanding of their positions based on how they respond directly to this proposal.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by KCPowercat » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am

I don't trust Loar although I do think she is pro development

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by kboish » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:56 am

Is it really a trap though? It just says that no new caps on incentives can be effective until surrounding counties/municipalities adopt similar caps.

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beautyfromashes
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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by beautyfromashes » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:58 am

KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
I don't trust Loar although I do think she is pro development
If you grew up in the suburbs, you can easily understand Loar. I don’t think her motives are ever evil, she just has an old mindset. I’d guess she’s looking at this issue solely from a logical standpoint of more money for the city and keeping/growing business here. It was smart to bring this after the primary, because I think it would fail otherwise. For some reason, it’s become a negative viewpoint politically and everyone is political.

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Re: On-going downtown development projects

Post by flyingember » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:27 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:58 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:52 am
I don't trust Loar although I do think she is pro development
If you grew up in the suburbs, you can easily understand Loar. I don’t think her motives are ever evil, she just has an old mindset. I’d guess she’s looking at this issue solely from a logical standpoint of more money for the city and keeping/growing business here. It was smart to bring this after the primary, because I think it would fail otherwise. For some reason, it’s become a negative viewpoint politically and everyone is political.
This. The Northland Neighbors are the same. It's not uncommon people get stuck in their mindset at some point in their life.

And on that subject, if this bill comes with higher standards and puts 100% back on the table that seems ok. It's not the number that's the issue, it's that every project all seems to get the same incentives.

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