KCRag Forum

moderne wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:30 pm If dedicated bridge would it be to east of HOA or west of ASB? Could the ASB be used where the center lanes of the old road deck were?

It should be! Crossing the river through the ASB bridge on a streetcar could be a signature KC experience. Maybe even have a pedestrian crossing on the west side for those views

The signature experience would be crossing the bridge when it is being raised or lowered. The shaking, squeaking and groaning.

Why do we set ourselves up in these fantasy worlds and then act disappointed?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:49 pm Why do we set ourselves up in these fantasy worlds and then act disappointed?

Portland Oregon has a similar bridge with a streetcar running over the top deck. I've even seen it considered a sister bridge to KC's ASB bridge. So, not as fantastical as you think

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Bridge

https://cityscenekc.com/north-kansas-c ... oad-block/

NKC probably can’t raise enough for the local match likely needed for federal funding. Total expected cost is $222 million.

Wish the state would care about transit options outside of driving and kick in assistance for reworkings of the HOA bridge

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:22 am https://cityscenekc.com/north-kansas-c ... oad-block/

NKC probably can’t raise enough for the local match likely needed for federal funding. Total expected cost is $222 million.

Wish the state would care about transit options outside of driving and kick in assistance for reworkings of the HOA bridge

Bridges are pricey. I do think I’d rather see the state help with a midtown East/West, South, or Independence Ave. extension first.

They are proposing to build a bridge.

NKC has casino cash, just use that!

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:47 am They are proposing to build a bridge.

NKC has casino cash, just use that!

Where do you see that?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:47 am They are proposing to build a bridge.

NKC has casino cash, just use that!

In my conversations with the streetcar team, I was told that they would be using the existing HOA bridge. Specifically using the farthest east driving lane and moving the median slightly west so that N/S traffic have two lanes each. Preferred solution for both the community (would greater protect the bike lane) and MoDOT (allows for a lane which can be used for highway maintenance vehicles).

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:50 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:47 am They are proposing to build a bridge.

NKC has casino cash, just use that!

Where do you see that?

I meant to say aren't. So your comment about bridges are expensive really doesn't apply here.

McKerrow told Council members a Burlington route, while it cost about $13 million less than the Swift alternative, would require the artery to be narrowed from three lanes of vehicle traffic each way to two.

That could be a challenge to the Missouri Department of Transportation, which operates the road as Highway 9.

So???? That road does not need to be six lanes wide. Modot is turning 169 into a high speed freeway through downtown and 29/35 has been widened and is rarely congested. Route 9 does not need to be a big six lane highway.

It seems like a perfect fit and Burlington could be redeveloped as a TOD corridor.

If it's cheaper and it gives the streetcar a dedicated ROW, then Burlington is a no-brainer. It could also be upgraded or incorporated into more of a true LRT line if it were ever extended north to KCI etc. Running down Swift locks in the slow curb running mixed traffic streetcar to pretty much end at NKC.

If you are going to do it, do it right.

$13M cheaper and a road diet on Burlington = WIN WIN. That route is underutilized, especially with 169 construction to complete.

Here is the most newsworthy quote IMHO.

In addition, only about 40 percent of the capital costs for a potential NKC extension, not including buying streetcars and building a maintenance facility, would be for actual streetcar construction work in North Kansas City.

The remaining capital costs would be incurred on the state-owned Heart of America Bridge and on the Kansas City side of the river, according to McKerrow.

Big gaps to fill.

I still disagree regarding choice for Swift vs. Burlington, especially at $13M additional cost. Faster route and more potential for additional redevelopment along Burlington. But I understand people advocating for their own self interest (obviously they have businesses there) and more connectivity.

Will be interested to see what solutions they come up to try and get federal funding. One option is the regional vote and pitching it as a first leg to the Airport (which we obviously have discussed whether or not that is a good investment before here). That allows KCMO to go after much larger federal match if we have a larger local funding pool. I wouldn't hold out much hope for MODOT or the state funding. It seems like tough math for NKC to get this done alone.

Again, I think the better option here is focus on Midtown and/or E/W extension next instead of this

Can we look at annexing NKC as part of this plan? We already provide most services to them as they're surrounded by KCMO and this might be a carrot that we dangle to get them to finally buy-in to joining the city. What advantages do they get being separate from us?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:53 pm Can we look at annexing NKC as part of this plan? We already provide most services to them as they're surrounded by KCMO and this might be a carrot that we dangle to get them to finally buy-in to joining the city. What advantages do they get being separate from us?

Not that I live there but I would say that NKC has no 1% earnings tax, they have more direct representation/power for voters, control over school district (I think so right?), and NKC Hospital (which is owned by city).

I was just throwing out ideas to get this project done. I think that E-W extension will run into similar but different roadblocks. Namely, it's just not that dense in the adjoining parcels. No $30m bridge to cross but the rail road tracks could be expensive to cross.

NKC district is mostly KCMO residents now isn’t it?

NKC has no earnings tax, as it is its own city, not KCMO. The North Kansas City School District includes North Kansas City, Gladstone, and KCMO North. North Kansas City is where NKC High School is located. Yes there are a lot of kids in KCMO, and programs with KCMO school district to get kids into NKC School District, as it is one of the better public school district in the state (I am a proud graduate of NKCHS and the NKCSD )

I like the idea of the street car going down Swift as it serves many more residents and has the opportunity to redevelop business that left Swift over the years. The infrastructure & "bones" for Swift is very strong.

Burlington is more of a straight shot and has plenty of room to run it. Issue is that is the Western Edge of NKC and is almost 100% commercial, light industrial. There are only a few spots at the very Northern Edge that would easily service residents to get on. If the idea is to have more of a commuter friendly line getting people to jobs/park & ride, etc. then yes Burlington. If it is intended to be a people mover to work & play, like the current streetcar then Swift is a better option and could be better to generate sales tax revenue as well.

It looks like the issue is dead anyway being very short on generating funds needed to move forward. That may change and perhaps more private investment would be gathered but as it sits they will have the study and maybe revisit it in 5-6yrs sooner if the new baseball stadium and more businesses & residents start filling up downtown.

Ok, so no 1% earnings tax. How about the city agree to fund the streetcar expansion through NKC and to Gladstone in exchange for annexation? Monies offset by increase in earnings tax fund until paid off. I’m sure NKC councilpeople would agree as it would grow their districts. Residents would have to pay the earnings tax but would get streetcar to DT and the additional development that it brings.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:40 pm Ok, so no 1% earnings tax. How about the city agree to fund the streetcar expansion through NKC and to Gladstone in exchange for annexation? Monies offset by increase in earnings tax fund until paid off. I’m sure NKC councilpeople would agree as it would grow their districts. Residents would have to pay the earnings tax but would get streetcar to DT and the additional development that it brings.

PV of earnings tax from NKC is likely pretty low based on my quick Google of employment and average income. NKC is nicely set up to build off downtown development momentum without KCMO politics.

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:16 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:40 pm Ok, so no 1% earnings tax. How about the city agree to fund the streetcar expansion through NKC and to Gladstone in exchange for annexation? Monies offset by increase in earnings tax fund until paid off. I’m sure NKC councilpeople would agree as it would grow their districts. Residents would have to pay the earnings tax but would get streetcar to DT and the additional development that it brings.

PV of earnings tax from NKC is likely pretty low based on my quick Google of employment and average income. NKC is nicely set up to build off downtown development momentum without KCMO politics.

So, you're saying it wouldn't be a good deal for the city?