KCRag Forum

For my edification, where does "the trench" generally begin on its east end?

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pash wrote:The tracks are below grade until a bit east of Benton Blvd.

Thanks. I was having trouble getting a sense on Google Maps of where below grade tracks began. Is it at least fair to say that adding track on the portion that isn't below grade would be easier than in the trench itself?

That all depends on the bridges you cross or go under. Bridge replacements or modifications get expensive quickly.

Eon Blue wrote:That all depends on the bridges you cross or go under. Bridge replacements or modifications get expensive quickly.

Understood. I've been working on a small thought experiment where the commuter line runs on the track from Independence but moves to street running at Truman Road.

smh wrote:

Eon Blue wrote:That all depends on the bridges you cross or go under. Bridge replacements or modifications get expensive quickly.

Understood. I've been working on a small thought experiment where the commuter line runs on the track from Independence but moves to street running at Truman Road.

that would be the original "jim terry" plan. while truman road is a wasteland, the requirements for running FRA-compliant equipment down the street are much more significant than, say, streetcar or light rail. that plan also would have run those trains down cherry street to connect with union station (something the crossroads is definitely not excited about). does your plan stop at truman road? maybe we get rid of 670 and turn that into a below grade train station?

DaveKCMO wrote:

smh wrote:

Eon Blue wrote:That all depends on the bridges you cross or go under. Bridge replacements or modifications get expensive quickly.

Understood. I've been working on a small thought experiment where the commuter line runs on the track from Independence but moves to street running at Truman Road.

that would be the original "jim terry" plan. while truman road is a wasteland, the requirements for running FRA-compliant equipment down the street are much more significant than, say, streetcar or light rail. that plan also would have run those trains down cherry street to connect with union station (something the crossroads is definitely not excited about). does your plan stop at truman road? maybe we get rid of 670 and turn that into a below grade train station?

My plan eventually gets to a newly two-way 12th Street (ideally) and runs through downtown. Not sure where it goes from there, either to the West Bottoms or somehow (as you mentioned the other day) to KCK. I'm enamored with the Portland "tram-train" if you will and I've been wondering whether it might be a solution to the 3rd/Grand vs. Union Station railroad issue.

once you see a DMU in operation you won't want them on the streets of downtown, especially 12th. it's not awful, but just remember there's a diesel engine in there and they are heftier looking than light rail (but smaller than traditional locomotive/coach).

DaveKCMO wrote:once you see a DMU in operation you won't want them on the streets of downtown, especially 12th. it's not awful, but just remember there's a diesel engine in there and they are heftier looking than light rail (but smaller than traditional locomotive/coach).

Good point. I wonder if the supposed changes that FRA (I think?) is considering to allow European train models would have any effect on this. I suppose we're still talking diesel though...

smh wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:once you see a DMU in operation you won't want them on the streets of downtown, especially 12th. it's not awful, but just remember there's a diesel engine in there and they are heftier looking than light rail (but smaller than traditional locomotive/coach).

Good point. I wonder if the supposed changes that FRA (I think?) is considering to allow European train models would have any effect on this. I suppose we're still talking diesel though...

this was covered earlier in this thread or the streetcar one. sounds like that's a different change than allowing lighter weight trains.

to me the streetcar being the same gauge as the freight lines means we're not limiting our options in the future. we're building a system that could be merged into one common system at some point down the line.

imagine a train starting at the Plaza and ending up at Liberty but using multiple miles of existing tracks. Instead of having a stop way on the edge of Liberty or in some trench which is inconvenient it takes classic streetcar style line right into downtown Liberty. the same idea could work for JoCo. follow a freight line for miles and then hop off it and follow College Blvd

I imagine this being done with a diesel-electric hybrid DMU, much like a freight train. but at some transition stop the train raises a "pantograph", turns off the diesel generator and it's nice and quiet.

plenty of well off towns could seriously add local streetcar service for way less this way. a town like Blue Springs would only need to bridge the gap to a commuter line and they have access to a much larger system

and this kind of opportunity could be the killer use of trains in a suburban sprawl world where people go every direction for jobs

from facebook:

County Executive Mike Sanders will make an announcement today during the legislative meeting in regards to the potential acquisition of key transit corridors in Jackson County. Stay tuned for more this afternoon!

jackson county and union pacific have reached a deal to transfer rail right-of-way to use for transit: https://twitter.com/brendalissg/status/ ... 7990972416

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/24/48 ... -step.html

The terms of the agreement would allow the county to buy two pieces of un-used rail corridor totaling 19 miles. The biggest chunk, at 15.5 miles, is the former Rock Island Line trackage between Lee’s Summit and near the Truman Sports Complex.
In addition to being a possible route for commuter rail service, the corridor has long been seen the key connector to link Kansas City with the Katy Trail, the cross-state hiking and biking trail.
The other 3.5 miles is known as the Pixley Spur and extends eastward from near the Amtrak station in Independence.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/24/48 ... rylink=cpy

I'm a little surprised they included the Pixley Spur. Last I knew there was still one or two customers on that line and UP had done some tie upgrades as recently as a couple years ago. I wonder if the former Rock Island trackage rights on the UPRR from Leeds Junction will transfer with the sale, or if the county would have to renegotiate those in the future? If I had to guess, I'd say we're looking at a new agreement there, possibly coupled with one for the Pixley Spur. Of course that's only relevant in relation to operating rail transit on those lines.

Maps always help!

FYI, the Leeds Junction I'm referring to is the north end of the Rock Island segment by the stadiums. At that point the track joins the UPRR Coffeyville sub.

biz journal story: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... k-for.html

Does this agreement circumvent KCS' problems with the commuter traffic passing through the junction close to Winner and 485? Does it mean that the trench might be an option?

missingkc wrote:Does this agreement circumvent KCS' problems with the commuter traffic passing through the junction close to Winner and 485? Does it mean that the trench might be an option?

I believe you mean KCT (Kansas City Terminal) not KCS, and no--this segment stops short of that area.