P&L district, Cordish, Retail discussion (from 14th/Main thread)
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:08 am
unless it's a significant retail catch, i wouldn't call it unexpected.
Maybe if they brought in a celebrity chef concept...DaveKCMO wrote: unless it's a significant retail catch, i wouldn't call it unexpected.
how do you know what is or isn't expected if it hasn't been announced yet?DaveKCMO wrote: unless it's a significant retail catch, i wouldn't call it unexpected.
another restaurant, even if it was a good catch, would be "expected" given the track record so far. we have high expectations for a significant boutique retail presence that were set by cordish, which you are well aware of. the retail block is completely empty, save for jos. a bank, with no other signs of life at this time.trailerkid wrote: how do you know what is or isn't expected if it hasn't been announced yet?
considering 1/3 of the plaza just emptied out in the last 2 months, i think everyone needs to chillax with cordish.
hmm... seems like i'm not the only purveyor of pessimism. i guess it just depends on the topic.beautyfromashes wrote: ^ Amazing that you're bitching about the announcement before it's even happened. I'm tired of the 'the sky is falling' pessimism.
DaveKCMO wrote: another restaurant, even if it was a good catch, would be "expected" given the track record so far. we have high expectations for a significant boutique retail presence that were set by cordish, which you are well aware of. the retail block is completely empty, save for jos. a bank, with no other signs of life at this time.
i won't apologize for being sold a bill of goods and expecting what was advertised. we keep hearing "it's coming! more stuff is coming!", so it's not like the marketing has ended or slowed while the economy has slowed around it.
"Being sold a bill of goods." Give me a break. When Cordish marketed the concept back in 2005, the retail and residential markets were booming. Home sales were at all time highs. The economy was in great shape (at least on the surface). Cordish was not lying to you. If they are guilty of anything, it is not forecasting the greatest economic collapse since Jimmy Carter.DaveKCMO wrote: we have high expectations for a significant boutique retail presence that were set by cordish, which you are well aware of. the retail block is completely empty, save for jos. a bank, with no other signs of life at this time.
i won't apologize for being sold a bill of goods and expecting what was advertised. we keep hearing "it's coming! more stuff is coming!", so it's not like the marketing has ended or slowed while the economy has slowed around it.
The retail block has been sitting around gathering tumbleweeds since long before the economy went tits up. Cordish failed to deliver and was then subsequently handed a convenient excuse after the fact as to why it was impossible to deliver and why the taxpayer will have to prop up their failure to lease. If they had filled the space before the economy went south, we might still be talking about which tennant will close first but at least there would be tennants to talk about.KC-wildcat wrote: "Being sold a bill of goods." Give me a break. When Cordish marketed the concept back in 2005, the retail and residential markets were booming. Home sales were at all time highs. The economy was in great shape (at least on the surface). Cordish was not lying to you. If they are guilty of anything, it is not forecasting the greatest economic collapse since Jimmy Carter.
Was it really that long? The retail block was built out in 2007. Economic trouble was on the horizon in mid 2008. I think that window was a bit smaller than you indicate.LenexatoKCMO wrote: The retail block has been sitting around gathering tumbleweeds since long before the economy went tits up.
many tenants for the Live block were identified or at least strongly rumored well before the block was built out. it was a game on this forum to look at renderings and floor plans and play "guess where _____ is going to go!!"KC-wildcat wrote: Was it really that long? The retail block was built out in 2007. Economic trouble was on the horizon in mid 2008. I think that window was a bit smaller than you indicate.
Successful developers have retail tennants committed before a project breaks ground and mostly leased by the time it finishes construction - the fact that the thing sat there completed and entirely vacant long before the retail sector went in the shitter makes it very clear that Cordish wasn't able to pull it off in the first place. If Cordish had the clout they claimed to have, the block would have had tennants when it was finished. Also the fact that the retail block fell to one of the last areas of construction focus ought to tell you pretty clearly just how confident they were in being able to pull it off.KC-wildcat wrote: Was it really that long? The retail block was built out in 2007. Economic trouble was on the horizon in mid 2008. I think that window was a bit smaller than you indicate.
I'm not trying to make excuses for Cordish. They are a sophisticated business group that said the right things to get the voters behind the initiative. They have not delivered on the retail or residential. Ok. I get that. People are upset.chrizow wrote:
by contrast, news and rumors regarding the retail block have been comparatively very scarce, both before and after the block was actually built. Cordish had every reason to divulge what they were working on back when the economy was better, and even more reason to do so now that the economy is in the shitter to build some sort of buzz. it's clear that they just don't have anything. this is somewhat understandable given the bad economy, but they weren't able to put anything out there before the recession hit either.
so what's your point? Are you saying that it was unwise to subsidize P&L? Are you saying that had you known the retail portion was going to sit empty, you would not have supported an initiative to replace surface lots with infrastructure?LenexatoKCMO wrote: Successful developers have retail tennants committed before a project breaks ground and mostly leased by the time it finishes construction - the fact that the thing sat there completed and entirely vacant long before the retail sector went in the shitter makes it very clear that Cordish wasn't able to pull it off in the first place. If Cordish had the clout they claimed to have, the block would have had tennants when it was finished. Also the fact that the retail block fell to one of the last areas of construction focus ought to tell you pretty clearly just how confident they were in being able to pull it off.
Don't buy the "it's all the economy's fault" excuses Cordish is going to shovel our way as the city keeps picking up the shortfalls for the next decade. Cordish screwed the pooch on this years before the economy was an issue.
True. We could always use more organic gardens.KC-wildcat wrote: Because, this retail block will not sit empty forever.