KCRag Forum

Talk of anchoring the football game in Dallas and the basketball tournament here is getting serious consideration....I think this would be best for both games, of course I'm biased and think bball works better here...we've proven that people will even show up for non-local teams.  OKC has baseball annually already so they aren't being "left out".  The football up here is fun but weather is way too often to un-fan friendly...ship it down to the new cathedral in Dallas.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1087081.html

Agree.

KCPowercat wrote: Talk of anchoring the football game in Dallas and the basketball tournament here is getting serious consideration....I think this would be best for both games, of course I'm biased and think bball works better here...we've proven that people will even show up for non-local teams.  OKC has baseball annually already so they aren't being "left out".  The football up here is fun but weather is way too often to un-fan friendly...ship it down to the new cathedral in Dallas.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1087081.html

I noticed attendance was down quite a lot this year.  Was it the economy or just the fact that OKC fans have pro basketball and just doesn't care that much about the Big XII tourney any more? 

I think the economy and the fact the tournament started on Wed hurt this year.  10th out of 13 in Big 12 tournament attendance.  I don't think OKC is ever not going to be a city in love with college sports...the Thunder aren't changing that. 

One of the main factors for anchoring is to get that season ticket base back that used to exist here for the Big 8...helps with ticket sales that they don't have now.

Sounds good to me.  I'd have have the basketball tournament anyway because it brings in more people than football game and most of those people stay for a longer period of time.  Keep people spending money here longer.

Highlander wrote: I noticed attendance was down quite a lot this year.  Was it the economy or just the fact that OKC fans have pro basketball and just doesn't care that much about the Big XII tourney any more? 

While I'm not sure how OKC's NBA team would greatly hurt the attendance, I'm sure we can blame the economy and the way the torney played out. - The local teams (OU and OSU) got knocked out early, as did near-by teams (Texas & KU).  In terms of attendance (when the tourney is in OKC), the only things worse than Missouri vs. Baylor would be:

Iowa State vs. Baylor
Colorado vs. Baylor
Nebraska vs. Baylor (maybe)

The real shocker is the tickets weren't all sold out beforehand....people not showing up due to teams is one thing but when they didn't even sell out the sessions, that's another that hasn't happened in awhile...and I'm sure alot of that has to do with the economy....but in years past any offering to the public of all-session men's tickets have been snatched up quickly by locals.

For me personally, I would have went if it was Thursday though Sunday.  Taking 3 days off of work is a bit much.

The other issue I think with OKC is the number of hotel rooms "close".  Fans forced to stay in Norman isn't really seen as a positive to the Big 12.  Has anybody experienced the tournament in OKC?  How are the volunteers?  fan information, etc?  that's where I think KC shines brightest.

I heard from some Missouri fans that they found the city after their games (the 8:30 games) to be kind of boring.  There wasn't much that was still open.

Thirdhand heresay, but FWIW.  I think that KC just does a much better job in hosting it than OKC does.  And in 4 days you end up selling the same number of tickets but generate an extra 3 days' worth of economic activity.

OKC isn't going to agree to keep baseball in exchange for the Hoops Tourney, the latter draws far more fans/media attention/dollars (millions more dollars) than the baseball deal does.    It may anchor in KC but over strong objections from Okie.

Obviously they will complain but the city doesn't get a vote. I am simply pointing out that they already have an anchored event...it might not bring in bball money but its still a nice bump for hotels and I am sure kc wouldn't turn it down if offered.

Anchoring events would let cities specialize and perfect events and the baseball is more okc's size with the smaller amount of hotel rooms.

Build up that season ticket base for each event so tickets not selling even in single sessions is much less likely to happen.  Also in a larger metro closer to more teams, you have a larger supply of buyers should tickets be available.

KCPowercat wrote: Obviously they will complain but the city doesn't get a vote. I am simply pointing out that they already have an anchored event...it might not bring in bball money but its still a nice bump for hotels and I am sure kc wouldn't turn it down if offered.

Anchoring events would let cities specialize and perfect events and the baseball is more okc's size with the smaller amount of hotel rooms.

Build up that season ticket base for each event so tickets not selling even in single sessions is much less likely to happen.  Also in a larger metro closer to more teams, you have a larger supply of buyers should tickets be available.

It's time to end the experiment with OKC.  Keep basketball permanently in KC and football in Dallas. 

KCPowercat wrote: Obviously they will complain but the city doesn't get a vote.

But the schools do, and OKC has two of the votes necessary.  Much like MU, KU, and Neb might prefer to play the football championship in KC on a rotating basis.

If you think the politics are bad at the federal and state levels I can just imagine what they might be at the college conference level.

However, I'm thinking with both the Sooners and Cowboys only hours away from Kansas City, it would not be a leap for either school to give an up vote to Kansas City.  Plus we have a much more storied history with basketball here in Kansas City.  I'm an OSU grad and believe it should be anchored here in KC and agree football would be better served in Dallas only if due to weather concerns. 

Thanks akp, I wasn't aware of that geography.

Point is if the movement is to anchor these events for better income to the big 12, universities quicky fall in line.

I actually don't mind sharing the hoops tourney, so long as we get it a majority of the time. If OKC and even Dallas wants to host it one out of every four years, that's fine by me.

Yeah I wouldn't mind that either but that doesn't accomplish a possible goal of building up a season ticket holder base in one city.

Baseball is anchored and doing great, football will be anchored to the new cowboys stadium and will be awesome...so makes sense to me to anchor basketball where its best suited.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: But the schools do, and OKC has two of the votes necessary. 

Therein lies the problem for Kansas City.  The two Oklahoma schools have, for whatever reasons, decided to cast their lots with the 4 schools in Texas.  That at minimum gets them a 50-50 split when it comes to any votes.  They voted to move the HQ to Dallas (over the North's objection) as well as to vote against Bob Frederick for first Big 12 commish when the league was founded.


I haven't seen any evidence yet to suggest they've changed.  And if it means voting for Dallas to have the fb/bb tourneys every so often in order to get their turn in the bb rotation, they'll definitely do it.

I suspect we will have to wait until after FB to see any movement on this.  Once Dallas has had the opportunity to tangibly show off what a success the FB champ can be down there, it will be easier to sell the overall concept. 

Yeah I don't think they are deciding until summer 2010. We get it the next two years so time to pull out the stops

I went to the Big XII tourny in OKC this year.  It was pretty much awful.  Many factors.  economy, scheduling (wednesday game was terrible idea), and weather (it snowed).  Their Bricktown district was depressing at best.  I went to the OKC tourny two years ago, when the district was pretty new, and many bars and restuarants were open.  Fastforward to 2009 and many of those bars were boarded up, vacant, or replaced by embarrasing tenants.  Overlooking their "river-walk" was a National Guard recruiting center, a haunted house, two boarded up spaces, a "coming-soon" dualing piano bar, and an art gallery. 

We went out on Wednesday night, Thursday morning, and Thursday mid-afternoon.  The place was a ghost town. 

This tournament needs to be in Kansas City for four reasons:

(1) Tradition
When I think about the Big East Tournament, I think of MSG/NYC.  The fans feel the same way.  The tradition fosters nostalgia, which has the potential to make the tournament a bit more coveted and emotional.  I think it cheapens it to rotate it year after year.  Sterile. 

(2) Proximity
KC is 30 minutes from KU, 1.5 hours from KSU, 2 hours from MU, 3.5 hours from NU, 4 hours from ISU.  OKC is close to OSU and OU, but everybody else is at least 5-6 hours away.  Fans from CU, Tech, A&M, UT, Baylor are so far away that they have to fly to either location.  KC is the logical choice.

(3) $$$
Because of the proximity, tradition, and quality of city (KC has much more to do than OKC, IMO), KC has and will draw a LOT more people than OKC.

(4) Football tradeoff
If the Big XII North schools would agree to trade football for basketball, I would bet the South schools like UT, OU and A&M would vote for the tradeoff. 

I agree Wildcat.  Also, the P&L District was absolutely awesome last year for the tourney.  And the SC is far better than what OKC has.  It's a no-brainer to keep this in KC.