hyde park: believe the hype?

[Critical_Mass]

Voltopt-
yeah,that is true...I've been hearing about a lot more crime around the w. 39th area lately...
That kind of stuff seems to peak in different areas at different times.  A snapshot which is not indicative of the area overall.
I haven't lived in the Volker / Roanoke area, but having the nearby commercial district is a big plus in my mind.  S. Hyde Park seemed a little isolated...there wasn't much I could walk to, but there was a lot nearby that could be reached on bicycle. 
I think my S. Hyde Park experience is jaded because of the bad neighbors I had...
In the summer, it was such a beautiful place to walk around in.

I did never have a car break-in...always parked on street.  However, my tags were stolen several times and when I finally got the plastic cover to stop this theft...my entire plates were ripped off! 
I haven't had car issues living downtown the past three years, but I have the luxury of parking in a secured garage...

[chrizow]

if it makes any difference, i am looking at a place near 45th street in extreme S HP. 

[GRID]

I lived in S Hyde Park for a while and still have relatives there.  Just east of Gillham and south of 39th.  Not sure I get the “ghetto” description of this area.  The houses are more modest and can be a bit less maintained mostly due to their age, but overall, it seems like a “stable” urban neighborhood.  Not an area looking to be the next big thing.  I don’t think most residents even want that.

The best thing is you can get in cheap and still be that “urban pioneer” I think you are wanting to be since the area does have a lot more baggage than more established and upper bracket areas like Coleman Heights and South Plaza.  Yet at the same time, it’s not near as risky as Old Northeast or something east of Troost.

I would say go for it.  Stay if you like it, move on if you don’t.  I know, easier said than done.

[beautyfromashes]

If you are looking to buy a house and make a tidy profit off of it in a short amount of time, you shouldn't look in the city.  If you are interested in investing in a neighborhood with your presence, home ownership, and energy, and are interested in helping the city (especially by paying property taxes), please buy in any of the aforementioned neighborhoods.

Come on! City neighborhoods are a great investment, both in the short term and long term.  I'd wager my house will increase in value more than most other areas of the metro.  You make it sound like living in the city is some service project where all you should expect is to feel good about yourself for helping rebuild a neighborhood.  Good, classic homes in the core are becoming a limited asset.  Because of First Fridays, P&L, high end condos, etc. suburbanites are starting to view the heart of the city as a safe, valid alternative.  Mark my words, prices will soar.

[midtown guy]

I would tend to agree with you beautyfromashes.  Downtown has a lot of things going for it in terms of home values.  As gas prices continue to rise, more people are going to look for homes closer to the downtown jobs.  There are becoming more and more charter schools for better education (and KCMO school district can't get worse). They will never be able to build more 100 year old historic homes close to the city.  Even in the down market, I'm seeing people move houses for good value over what they paid for it 3 or 4 years ago. I don't see any of these neighborhoods being a bad investment in the short term -- and definitely not the long term.

[voltopt]

I apologize for the generalization.  Of course urban neighborhoods will appreciate in value - my point is one shouldn't buy in an urban neighborhood for the wrong reasons.  Don't buy into it because you are looking for a tidy profit in the near short term - do it because you want to be a part of the community.  If you happen to sell your property for a considerable profit in a short amount of time, that's great - certainly a bonus to being a positive contributor to city life.  I'm not saying its a bad investment - but I'm personally sick of opportunists and sheisters and speculators who focus on "flipping" property for a short term profit - much to the detriment of a neighborhood.

[Gretz]

I've had two friends who live or lived in Hyde Park with widely varying experiences.  The first is a French family with very young children.  They have no complaints and like their place, especially what they paid for it.  They are in the south Hyde park area. 
       The second, a girl I used to date, bought a house, not sure exactly where, but near enough the park that she often ran there.  She had so many bad incidents and problems she had to move out.  She was assaulted and broken into twice, two of these incidents being related.  She was broken into soon after moving in with only objects of obvious value taken.  She was assualted once apparently at random by a teen who just happened by as she was unloading some groceries from her car, and just managed to fight off her attacker and make it inside to call the police.  He was arrested during this incident and she testified against him.  He was convicted (although a juvenile) his family swearing vengence on this "lying hoe."  Some relatives of his later were later arrested in a separate incident when her then boyfriend interrupted a burglary by calling the police and then waiting for them to show up before springing on them.  The men had various "blunt-force" type weapons.  Three men were involved, two arrested and eventually convicted with one escaping.  One of the men was a cousin of the gentlemen convicted of assualt.  After this incident, considering the harsh intimidating rhetoric of his friends and relatives, and just general discomfort with pervasive cat-calling and disrespect when running/entering-exiting/doing anything outside associated with being an attractive young female she moved out never to return, partially in anticipation of her original agressor's release date approaching. 
    I'm sure it is very block by block.  It's just important to really know what your very local circumstances will be when shopping.  I'd stake the place out for a night or two, just to see what kind of traffic/rif-raff are around at night before purchasing.  As a male, you probably are less susceptible to many types of problems, as well, of course...

[elextendo]

I bought on armour east of troost 3 years ago and live there..never have had any problems..only from the people I hired..I had more break-ins in the crossroads..Drugs are easier to find here..I mean are more obvious..but its a city..I feel pretty safe so does my wife...
Dog+lights+ being aware=safe

[KCAppraiser]

I lived in S hyde park for around 5 years before I moved to Pendleton Heights in '04.  41st and Charlotte and then 43rd st between Charlotte and Holmes.  It does seem like this neighborhood has been on the verge for a long time but many of the individual locations that have been holding the neighborhood back have been remodeled or converted to condos.  When I lived on Charlotte there was a house across the street with the worst renter neighbors possible.  It was purchased and remodeled in '03 or '04.  The apartments on 43rd and Gillham used to be drug havens, but I am pretty sure they have been converted to condos.  It really is getting better all the time.  The amount of rentals in the area has gone down in the past few years because most houses can no longer be bought cheap enough to be profitable for rental purposes.  When I lived there my car was broken into once, they stole my change and a pair of pants but left the stereo.  The one thing I hated about living there was the people constantly asking for money.  Always with the sad stories.  Overall I prefer PH, but I wouldn't hesitate to move back if I had to.

[schugg]

I live at 34th and wyandotte and before I bought my home in july 2005, I would drive by at different times of night!  It made me feel more comfortable and went forward with an offer!  I put some flood lights on the east side of my house and (had) a dog but now a short carbine.

There are two $300,000 townhomes for sale at 34th and wyandotte (hyde park townhouses)http://www.reeceandnichols.com/Listing/ ... rBar=false

The foot traffic is great! no real neighborhood to the north nor a liquor store/convenience store for shady foot traffic....the oneway street helps too!  I feel very safe as my wife does too. she is comfortable walking around redempterist church on linwood and back again.
now If I could catch the guy walking on the side of my house and setting off my motion light in the middle of the night.... That freaks my wife out! but thats our only problem!

chrizow,  I hope you end up in Hyde Park! 


hyde park is a big place and will take more time to get it like it needs to be1

[schugg]

sorry for the long link, If some can shorten it, please do so.

[medleyj]

N is better than S with generally larger and older homes but has the Armour Section 8 housing close by. Hyde Park will probably not have mass appeal for at least another decade. Until the Section 8 housing goes away, HP will probably never have mass appeal.

Most of the apartment buildings on Armour have been renovated recently are are being renovated now. There is still an awful lot of section 8, but there are hopeful signs as well. Some buildings such as "Hyde Park Towers" on the Southeast corner of Armour and Holmes are being advertised at market rate. A representative from one of the largest developers spoke to the Hyde Park Neighborhood Association a few months ago. He spoke of marble counter tops and stainless steel appliances. In the sort term, the building is going to be section 8. But I don't think you spend that kind of money unless your ultimate goal is condominiums.

[ignatius]

From what I've heard, those renovated buildings are almost all section 8 and will be long term.  They spent the bucks because of breaks from the feds and guaranteed income or something to that affect - don't recall the details.  I don't think they'd go condo because the buildings have very very small units.  These were small hotel rooms that apparently were not reconfigured, which is why they're used for low income housing.  I could be misinformed though - hopefully.

[LenexatoKCMO]

From what I've heard, those renovated buildings are almost all section 8 and will be long term.  They spent the bucks because of breaks from the feds and guaranteed income or something to that affect - don't recall the details.  I don't think they'd go condo because the buildings have very very small units.  These were small hotel rooms that apparently were not reconfigured, which is why they're used for low income housing.  I could be misinformed though - hopefully.

I think it is about half and half - roughly half the buildings will stay Sec8 (though allegedly with fewer units) and the other half are supposedly market rate.  Different developers involved. 

[beautyfromashes]

From what I've heard, those renovated buildings are almost all section 8 and will be long term. 

One of the largest tragedies and missed opportunities of recent history.

[chrizow]

this is what i think and what i've gather about hyde park:

* it is not, and will probably never be, the "next brookside," and everyone in the 'hood except house-flippers is a-ok with that.  instead, it is a solid, diverse neighborhood that probably has more in common with volker, dutch hill, etc. than anything more upscale - huge mansions along gillham notwithstanding.

* it suffers from crime issues, but probably not any worse than other areas of midtown, including areas with better reputations like Volker, West Plaza, etc. 

* the perception of crime is probably due to the "troost factor," which in reality does not really impact things all that much.

* the people who live there have wildly divergent opinions of the neighborhood, depending more or less on whether they live next to a house or apartment complex that contains problematic tenants. 

* living next to major streets like 39th or armour increases your chances of dealing with shenanigans. 

[DaveKCMO]

sounds about right.

[beautyfromashes]

Sounds about what I was thinking except one thing.  I don't see Brookside continuing to be the top of the list for housing options in the city forever.  There are some great streets but most of the stock is below average.  There will come a point when prices will top out and alternative areas will become more well known and established.  Many suburbanites have chosen first ring 'cities' like Brookside, Fairway, even Prairie Village as their first jump towards the city.  This might sound strange, but those areas were the only areas they could justify as being 'safe'.  It was a jump for kids who grew up in Olathe and Lee's Summit and Blue Springs.  Now that they have made the jump they will continue the reverse exodus moving into Hyde Park, Pendelton Highlands, Coleman Highlands, even highrise living.  Neighborhood house prices will level out across these areas.

[alpha_glamourina]

A little late to the party, but-

When my husband and I began house hunting in earnest, the interactive crime map at KansasCity.com (http://crime.kansascity.com/) became  my most objective "best friend".  The facts are all there.  You get an immediate visual comparison of where each type of crime is most prevalent, and a listing of the addresses where they occurred.  For instance, I noticed that most of the thuggery on Independence Blvd. happened around check cashing/quick loan places.  This knowledge helped me determine for myself that I didn't wish to see houses that were within a block or so of such businesses. 

So yeah, check it out.  Whether you're house hunting or not, it's a great resource. 

[Sportster]

Wow! What agreat thread! I've lived in Northeast for almost 20 years. Wouldn't move from here. Period.
What I find interesting is that some of the earlier posts on this thread are completely interchangeable with Northeast.
Take out "Armour Blvd". and insert Independence Ave.
Take out "section 8 on Armour" and insert "Stonewall Court".
Almost identical concerns and remedies. (stay w. of Main vs. stay north of St. John)

Its really too bad some of the HP NA's really disassociate from the Northeast NA's - especially given we share a number of the same issues w/ drugs, prostitution, crime, etc.

I've got a friend who lives in HP - don't ask me which one (central, south, north - whatever that's about) and he tells me the emails that are sent by NA's in midtown almost mirror emails sent by NA's in Northeast.

Interesting stuff

Sportster
...still stayin in ne