Shoal Creek

kcmajik · Post by **kcmajik** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:40 pm

all this talk of the new urban projects has stirred up a question. is shoal creek spose to be a new urbanism or is it just strip malls and leawood town center stuff? and last time i was in town i noticed dirt being moved over on 152 and flintlock rd.(next to supertarget) what is that?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:03 am

n.u. baby.... http://www.shoalcreek-valley.com/

I guess it's more like master planned but there is a new urbanism element to it....

Very solid development...for the burbs that is.

Post by **dangerboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 8:02 am

The goal is new urban, but the master plan reserves the right to revert back to modern suburban if the market demand for new urban isn't there. So far they are starting off with residential phases, no commercial yet. They have some houses up around the golf course, and are now starting the "Village" neighborhood, which will have more of the new urban elements like alleys, front porches, row houses, etc.

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 9:00 am

Yea I noticed ground being broken on the NW corner of Flintrock & 152. Hopefully it's something more attractive than the crap directly east. That has to be the

shittiest looking Bed Bath & Beyond I've ever seen. And the majority of those are crap. I'm still waiting for my Hen House in the area.

kcmajik · Post by **kcmajik** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:20 pm

directly east of there everything looks BAD. that is the worst planned big box area i have EVER seen-worse than strang line and 119. those stop signs in the intersections through there and the weird one-way exits have GOT to be resolved somehow

btw ShowMe, what's wrong with hyvee? or are you just partial to chix?

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:58 pm

Majik there's a Hyvee in Liberty off 291 so I doubt they'll build over that way. Besides Hen House has a better salad bar. BTW where does everyone get there info on future development of parcels of land? For example where would I go to find out what's going to be built on the corner of Flintrock and 152? Do I have to actually go to City Hall or just read it in the business journal or local paper? I wish KCMO would do a better job of publishing information on the city planning office's website.

Post by **dangerboy** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:52 pm

There are two good places for neighborhood and planning info on the city web site. The resources are not well promoted or easy to find, but they are there.

GIS Maps (Geographic Information Systems)
Interactive maps showing things like zoning, taxing districts, streets, and most important - property ownership.

http://www.kcmo.org/kcmo.nsf/web/gismaps?opendocument

KIVA system
Permits, land info, and requests for service (action center and codes complaints). The name is meaningess, it's just the name of the software vendor. The search interface isn't very friendly, but the info is usualy in there somewhere.

http://kivaweb.kcmo.org/kivanet/2/index.cfm

Also, counties are a good source for info, since they maintain the tax and real estate records. Jackson and Johnson Counties both have these records online. The last time I looked, the other metro counties didn't. But it is public record and available in person at the relevant county court house.

Jackson County online data: http://www.jacksongov.org/ser_os.shtml

nota · Post by **nota** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:35 pm

Hen House is not my cup of tea at all. And their salad bar is a health hazard as far as I'm concerned.

Nor is HyVee. Nor is Price Chopper.

Since moving from STL, I've been unsatisfied with any major grocery store here in this area.

It has some to do with the fact that they don't have a good assortment of stuff. They are supplied by Associated Wholesale Grocers and their idea of what we should be able to buy is what we get.

phxcat · Post by **phxcat** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:22 pm

At least its all better than Schnucks!

nota · Post by **nota** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:38 pm

Nope-not better than Schnucks, but I'm not a Shnucks fan either.

Dierbergs is my favorite.

KayWaldoBarnes · Post by **KayWaldoBarnes** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:56 pm

"The Shops of Shoal Creek" is eventually to go at the NW corner of 152 and Flintlock. It should be similar to the "Shops of Boardwalk". The question still remains, "Can the Northland support another high-end retail shopping center?" I think we can. The fact remains the Northland continues to be underserved: in retail, resturants, and respect. While I agree with everyone else in the fact that the "Shops of Boardwalk" is nothing more than a nice looking strip mall, this is the type of mall (Town Center) that is found in Southern Johnson Overated County, and the addition of another (Shops of Shoal Creek) will only help establish the Northland as equal in the eyes of the JOCO.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:50 pm

KayWaldoBarnes wrote:"The Shops of Shoal Creek" is eventually to go at the NW corner of 152 and Flintlock. It should be similar to the "Shops of Boardwalk". The question still remains, "Can the Northland support another high-end retail shopping center?" I think we can. The fact remains the Northland continues to be underserved: in retail, resturants, and respect. While I agree with everyone else in the fact that the "Shops of Boardwalk" is nothing more than a nice looking strip mall, this is the type of mall (Town Center) that is found in Southern Johnson Overated County, and the addition of another (Shops of Shoal Creek) will only help establish the Northland as equal in the eyes of the JOCO.

After this last visit to Dallas, I don't believe our market will be saturated with high-end retail shopping centers. They have malls and shopping centers within blocks from each other, and almost ALL of them are successful and leased at 100%. Plus I went into a shitty mall that was built about like Metro North as far as layout, however, there wasn't any empty storefronts, plus they had a PF Changs and McCormick & Shmicks at the mall!!!

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 pm

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Even halfway ghetto shopping malls in other cities are better than what KC has. We have 1.8 million people and only four major shopping centers-- Plaza, Oak Park, Independence Center, and Town Center. I believe this problem is due 100% to extremely poor management. Shopping centers like Bannister, Blue Ridge and Great Mall etc. have been neglected and haven't kept pace with current trends. And as for Metro North, there's absolutely no reason it shouldn't be comparable or bigger than Oak Park....it has no competition north of the river. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you bring in the right stores and keep the center looking good...people will come.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:30 pm

trailerkid wrote:I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Even halfway ghetto shopping malls in other cities are better than what KC has. We have 1.8 million people and only four major shopping centers-- Plaza, Oak Park, Independence Center, and Town Center. I believe this problem is due 100% to extremely poor management. Shopping centers like Bannister, Blue Ridge and Great Mall etc. have been neglected and haven't kept pace with current trends. And as for Metro North, there's absolutely no reason it shouldn't be comparable or bigger than Oak Park....it has no competition north of the river. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you bring in the right stores and keep the center looking good...people will come.

Exactamundo! You hit the hammer on the nail with this one. If you think about it, shopping options is actually pretty pathetic in this city. Same thing with dining. Other cities have so many more dining options than we do in KC too. They have variety at every major intersection, whereas we have a McDonald's, Burger King and Apple Bee's.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:34 pm

Anyone remember the huge restuarant Baby Doe's that use to sit on the hill off Cambridge Circle with a great view of downtown KC? I didn't think that restuarant exsisted anywhere else. Well... They have one in Dallas! Same design and everything! I LOVED THAT RESTURANT!!! I can remember my parents taking me there as a child. I always wondered why they never rebuilt it after the east side of the restuarant collapsed.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:05 pm

Never understood that, StL has "major" malls everywhere and most cities have found a decent use for their oldder malls. KC is just a use it up and move on city.

Metro North is in a market of 300,000 rather upscale suburban people. Not to mention close to KCI and StJoe. Somebody is screwing up bigtime with that place.

Blue Ridge has 300-400 THOUSAND people within what, ten miles of that place? Most of those people are middle class than can afford to shop and have to go Indep Center or LS. That could so easily be a very nice semi regional shopping center, especially with its visibility, proximity to the stadiums and the massive amounts of traffic that pass by it daily.

Throw a super target and AMC in there, I don't care, but its rotting away and taking the whole neighborhood with it.

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:21 am

Why is everyone so hung up on using enclosed shopping malls as an indication of the health of the city? Malls are a thing of the past, fewer and fewer are being built each year. The current fashion is mega strip malls, of which we have more than enough. And the future is mixed used town centers, which are popping up all over the Northland and somewhat in Jackson and Johnson Counties.

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:48 am

Nowadays the only use for an enclosed mall is for a babysitting service for the throngs of teenagers who have nothing better to do.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:08 pm

No one ever said that enclosed malls equate health. But the failure of numerous enclosed shopping centers for no other reason than mismanagement is costing the metro tens of millions of dollars in tax revenue. No doubt, shoppers are flocking to centers like SummitWoods, but in other cities the enclosed shopping centers fought back and remerchandised. In KC, every mall except Oak Park and Independence bent over. Nebraska Furniture Mart estimated that the KC market was more 25% underserved by furniture retail. I am willing to bet the number may be more when it comes to viable shopping options.

ShowME · Post by **ShowME** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:39 am

Latest editions to the area. Typical suburban crap but nonetheless it will help KCMO grow and add to it's taxbase.

Olearys
Uno's Pizza
Corner Cafe(Same as the one in Parkville)
Joe's Crab Shack

This project should really take off this summer. Plent of dirt has been turned and they're already putting in streetscaping.