KCRag Forum

I'm pulling this topic out from the "Why Commercial Construction Costs More" thread because it's quite a separate and relevent issue.  The question is:

What do you hate about modern home and building design?

http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php/topic, ... #msg273976

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The other thing I detest about many modern houses is that the garage doors and concrete driveways are the primary focus of the house, and design element, facing the street, The house entrance is often set back further on the lot, like it's secondary.  Sometimes you can't even see the front door.  I wonder what the feng shui people would say about that?

The effect is like seeing the back of  the house from the alley.



Does this tell people that one is supposed to enter the house through the garage?   Is it a subtle subconscious statement saying: "I don't want to interact with other humans; I just want to get in my car and move from place to place without encountering other humans physically, or having to talk to them?"



It seems to me to be.   There is something very hostile about coming up upon a house that is all garage frontage.  Does anyone else have that sort of feeling?





They might as well place gas pumps in front of these houses.  I get the impression sometime that I am supposed to drive up and hand my car keys to someone and ask for a tuneup.   :lol:

That said, some old gas stations have more charm than these houses.

I feel you, but the garage-door-as-primary-front-feature seems to work okeh in San Fransisco...

Wouldn't you rather come home to this house than a garage door?

Like I said, I'm with you. I just got back from San Francisco, and was kind of struck by the fact that an enormous amount of the housing I saw featured a garage door at street level, and it didn't detract in any perceivable way from street life. I like alleys with garages in back, but I don't think its the be all end all definition of good design to me.

When you say Modern Homes, do you mean Contemporary?

Not the style of architecture per se, just any new home being built or one in the past 10-15 years.  It can be a retro house, like Federal or Georgian style, ranch, contemporary, a townhouse, or any other type of building.

They can be examples of bad design choices--like the garage being the focus example I used, or painting every house in the sub-division the same shade of paint.  It can be vinyl porch railings, or cheesy fake rock.

You can even show examples of good versus bad use of something.

I really like the "single family lofts" on SW Trafficway.

FangKC wrote: Wouldn't you rather come home to this house than a garage door?

Nope, I prefer living in the here and now rather than the past.

Oh Lordy, where to start   Of course you picked houses under construction and the ugliest ones you could find as well.

Does this tell people that one is supposed to enter the house through the garage?  Is it a subtle subconscious statement saying: "I don't want to interact with other humans; I just want to get in my car and move from place to place without encountering other humans physically, or having to talk to them?"

None of the above. It tells that the car drives into the garage for the homeowner's convenience. We get out of the car, walk across the street for the mail or to chit chat with the neighbors or to pick at some of our plantings, etc. Your thoughts are bizarre to say the least.

It seems to me to be.  There is something very hostile about coming up upon a house that is all garage frontage.  Does anyone else have that sort of feeling?

I dont' care for all garage frontage either however not all houses are built that way. To build with a side or rear garage requires more land and land is expensive. But then you picked the ugliest ones you could find. No landscaping, unfinished, and ugly. Then you compared them with a drawing of a dream house of yesteryear and expect people to "get" what you are saying. Very few modern families would like living in a house that wasn't set up for a modern lifestyle. Yes, some do, but then they remodel to get it the way they want it - i.e. - modern.

No one wants to live with 7 foot basement ceilings and have no cabinets in their kitchens. No one wants a bedroom with a 9' dimension. We want modern energy efficient windows and doors. We want more than a 25 foot lot. Of course that house isn't pictured on a 25 foot lot either. That would make it look quite a bit different.

Didja notice that they show shingles on the roof, but specify rolled roofing? Now that would be attractive, don'tcha think?

OTOH-I'd love to have the millwork from an older house. Machine made just doesn't match that made by the old craftsmen. And the materials to make it aren't cheap any more.

They might as well place gas pumps in front of these houses.  I get the impression sometime that I am supposed to drive up and hand my car keys to someone and ask for a tuneup. 

That said, some old gas stations have more charm than these houses.

If you live with the stereotypes you listen to, that is all you will ever think. And I doubt that you were even around when you didn't have to pump your own gas.

And some new gas stations have more charm than some old houses.

More later, but I wanted to address your tirade.

i am MUCH less concerned with the actual design of homes than i am with the way residential neighborhoods are integrated with the city.  as chingon noted, it's possible for garage-fronted homes to be in "pedestrian friendly" areas.  likewise, it's possible for older homes or homes with rear/side garages to be "pedestrian-hostile."  the difference is the context of the neighborhood. 

unless you're talking about an open front porch where people hang out (or a completely transparent house), i don't think the facade of ANY home is "welcoming" to the street.  (what exactly are we trying to "welcome" anyway?)  garage-fronted homes are certainly not to my taste, but i don't think that aspect alone is a major problem. 

FangKC wrote: Wouldn't you rather come home to this house than a garage door?

sure, although since most people, including urban people, drive to work or wherever, they'll still be "coming home" to a garage door, albeit perhaps one on the rear or side of the house.  for example, look at the beautiful old streetcar-suburban homes in brookside and environs.  people come home to a garage door there as well, but the homes have a lot more curb appeal.  besides, a lot of bungalows or craftsmans in KC have front-facing garages on them (i live in one) and they are still great!

I didn't know I was engaged in a tirade.   :roll:

I was just talking about development practices, which is what this forum is about.  I've also noted that some developers are returning to former styles of house design, and getting away from the type I've shown as examples.  I don't know that these are the ugliest I could have found, or even thought I was somehow motivated as doing that when I found them.  I just saw ads for these houses in real estate magazines, and just thought they were adequate examples of some design practices.  There are plenty of developments these days where these types of homes are being constructed, so I don't think that I had to look far.

I wasn't criticizing a house simply because it had a garage exposure on the front of the house.  I was just commenting on how these designs made it look like the back of the house, or a parking facility.

Many of the decorating and other real estates shows, magazines, and books always talk about curb appeal of homes, and I thought it was a relevant topic. I still do.

It was certainly not my intention to engage in a tirade, or offend anyone.

It just seems to me to these designs are car-oriented and not people-oriented.  These designs appear to make the house a servant to the car and not the people in them.

My point is that I don't see this specific style of house as a welcoming one for humans.

My beef in the modern housing market is that developers use the same set of floor plans for every house in a developement. this to me is taking the individuality out of a neighborhood. I would like to see developers mix it up a bit by mixing Ranch with modern, with victorian, with cottage Etc. This is what makes a neighborhood look good. not all one cookie cutter style.

Call me old-fashioned, but some of my best memories growing up were spent on the front porch of our house, which was a gathering place in our neighborhood.  Waving at neighbors from the porch swing. It was also where  my Mom competed with neighbors to have the prettiest plantings on their porches and entrances.  If that is some idealized image of the past, then so be it. I happen to believe it was a better lifestyle because it was a safe refuge for kids to gather, and a place my parents could keep watch over us with ease.

When my wife and I moved to Waldo, I specifically told my realtor that I wouldn't consider any home without a front porch.

You sound like my brother. When he moved to Kansas City, his only demand was that the house have a place to sit outside and have lots of mature trees around it, and on the street.

I don't have as much of an issue with the garage in front because of what someone else said upthread.  Alleys require more land and most suburbanites don't want to give up their square footage.  I just wish they'd build the houses closer to the street.  Then you could really sit outside on your front porch and chat with people walking by. 

What I hate is that there isn't anything BUT houses in these developments.  You're forced to get in your car and drive to get a quart of milk.  Why can't there be markets and other consumer businesses planned within these subdivisions? 

Angel:
That is because of the cities setback rules. the newer houses have to be built so many feet from the center of the road to stay in code. any closer then they would have to demolish and start over.

On the issue with alleys. It is possible to include alleys in a subdivision but developers do not want to include them. They focus their efforts more on winding streets and cul de sacs.

FangKC wrote: I didn't know I was engaged in a tirade.   :roll:

I was just talking about development practices, which is what this forum is about.  I've also noted that some developers are returning to former styles of house design, and getting away from the type I've shown as examples.  I don't know that these are the ugliest I could have found, or even thought I was somehow motivated as doing that when I found them.  I just saw ads for these houses in real estate magazines, and just thought they were adequate examples of some design practices.  There are plenty of developments these days where these types of homes are being constructed, so I don't think that I had to look far.

I wasn't criticizing a house simply because it had a garage exposure on the front of the house.  I was just commenting on how these designs made it look like the back of the house, or a parking facility.

Many of the decorating and other real estates shows, magazines, and books always talk about curb appeal of homes, and I thought it was a relevant topic. I still do.

It was certainly not my intention to engage in a tirade, or offend anyone.

It just seems to me to these designs are car-oriented and not people-oriented.  These designs appear to make the house a servant to the car and not the people in them.

My point is that I don't see this specific style of house as a welcoming one for humans.

I made a bad choice of words perhaps, but your post just sounded really off-putting to those who might like the way their home is.

I'd be interested in your comments on the things I picked from the ad you posted as reasons why many people prefer modern design.

I dont' care for all garage frontage either however not all houses are built that way. To build with a side or rear garage requires more land and land is expensive. But then you picked the ugliest ones you could find. No landscaping, unfinished, and ugly. Then you compared them with a drawing of a dream house of yesteryear and expect people to "get" what you are saying. Very few modern families would like living in a house that wasn't set up for a modern lifestyle. Yes, some do, but then they remodel to get it the way they want it - i.e. - modern.

No one wants to live with 7 foot basement ceilings and have no cabinets in their kitchens. No one wants a bedroom with a 9' dimension. We want modern energy efficient windows and doors. We want more than a 25 foot lot. Of course that house isn't pictured on a 25 foot lot either. That would make it look quite a bit different.

Didja notice that they show shingles on the roof, but specify rolled roofing? Now that would be attractive, don'tcha think?

OTOH-I'd love to have the millwork from an older house. Machine made just doesn't match that made by the old craftsmen. And the materials to make it aren't cheap any more.

For those who think front porches are the greatest thing for your house, modern homes do their neighboring in the back yards. Lots of porches, decks, patios, shade trees and above all neighbors.

As a matter of fact, the conch shell just blew down the block. I'm picking up my appetizer and bottle of wine and heading down there. It was at my house last night.

I really really don't understand why on earth anyone thinks that 'burb folks don't know their neighbors and hang with them often. Does anyone actually have personal knowledge of this?

nota wrote:
I really really don't understand why on earth anyone thinks that 'burb folks don't know their neighbors and hang with them often. Does anyone actually have personal knowledge of this?

yes.  i grew up in the burbs, as did all my friends.  from my experience, and what i've been told, neighborhood interaction is incredibly minimal.  my parents have lived in the same house for 27 years and they MIGHT know the names of 4 neighbors, and they never hang out.  same with my brother and his wife in Chesterfield, same with all my friends' families from suburban KC, STL, CHI, etc. 

of course it happens, however...i will say that since i've lived in West Plaza we've had neighbors from 4 different houses come up and introduce themselves out of nowhere - and we're just lowly renters.  i never got that in the loft bldg i lived in.  i don't think it's an "urban v. suburban" phenomena so much as a 'hood by 'hood phenomena.