KCRag Forum

ToDactivist wrote:Look at Minute Maid stadium in lovely houston. Nada for redevelopment b/c it was not in an area that was, could be and nothing can make it so. Ughfest.

Must not have been to Houston in several years.

Have you seen the huge tower development across the street to the SW of it? There's also a large new building to the NW
their parking is to the SE so I'll exclude that side.

The area on the far side of I-69 is a patchwork of old, empty and new apartments but development is already working that way from the red line and the Purple/Green line will draw development SE as they're running out of empty lots along the red line

No, development has not got to the North of it yet, but to say there's nothing is provably false.

Partially true. I guess by development I meant walkable amenity/F&B thingys not glass towers across and servicing the convention center. And am aware of the new streetcar line - if used. The consideration for a stadium is well documented by ULI and others but still some magic in that selection.

Thanks.

2005 Royals Washington Park Site Overview


My 2018 Updated Renderings

View from West/Southwest

View from the bottom of the memorial

Union Hill Aerial

Northeast Aerial

Link to all images
https://imgur.com/a/ZQJR3w4

Please let me know what you think of this. Suggestions are welcomed. I could make something like this for the Northloop as well.

The stadium itself is very similar to Wrigley in Chicago. A lack of horizontal space is combatted by moving support areas and such(kitchens, dinning rooms, etc) below grade. The site has a lot of below grade space that can be utilized for such purposes.

I removed the game day plaza to allow for more seating and hotels/apartments/office spaces and associated spaces. Every potential revenue producing space must be capitalized on inorder to make the financing for this project work.

Why this site?:
1. The land is already owned by KCMO and Union Station.
2. No highway removal is required to get this going, unlike the northloop site.
3.The parcels included in my plan are hard to activate, unlike the North loop which would already have been built on by now.
5. I believe a Northloop stadium would turn into a sprawling suburban site in a prime downtown location. The limitations of the Washington Park site make sure the stadium and associated structures do not sprawl.

Worries: Traffic is definitely a concern at this site. Main should be closed to cars on game day to 1. preserve streetcar performance and 2. serve as a sort of pedestrian zone. This plan relies on a streetcar expansion, bussing, and hopefully LR to make the car problem manageable.

Thanks I hate it

But seriously though, good job on the renderings. It’s clear you put a lot of time into it. I’m not a fan of the idea itself though. The idea of a stadium at the bottom of liberty memorial’s hill really seems to be in bad taste. The WWI museum is one of only like 4 things in this city that I’d consider truly world class, so we should treat it with incredible respect. Also, city hall should be visible from it.

Speaking of views, the baseball field has none, which negates one of the benefits of having it downtown. Maybe turn it to face the memorial or union station or something. Or shrink some of the high-rises so you can see the skyline.

From a logistical perspective, I don’t think the populous can be easily convinced that a location with such limited parking would be an improvement, especially since it comes at the cost of a public park, albeit an underused one. You’d also be tasked with defending the destruction/relocation of the Korean war memorial. I just think a modified park would be far more beneficial to the community than an awkwardly placed baseball stadium. Something like this-

TheLastGentleman wrote:Thanks I hate it

Thank you.

normalthings wrote:

TheLastGentleman wrote:Thanks I hate it

Thanks James. Haha it’s all good. Was just trying to see what you showed me would look like if built.

Hey

Don't call me that

normalthings wrote:2005 Royals Washington Park Site Overview

Please let me know what you think of this. Suggestions are welcomed. I could make something like this for the Northloop as well.

Fantastic job. I wish KC had the vision to something like this but this place is almost hopeless.
(I hear Julia Kaufmann chiding "this isn't Toronto!")
This is what real cities do - they go big and make it happen.
This plan doesn't detract from the Liberty Memorial in any way at all.
If anything, the WWI Museum would likely see far more visitors if this happened.
Look for some one to claim that he can't see City Hall from this plan so he's against it while screaming "shrink, shrink, shrink!".
Then he'll cheer lead like a rabid dog for a north loop location, never realizing that he "won't be able to see City Hall" from there either.

The north loop would be the worst place under the sun to place a stadium - it would turn into a suburban shitfest literally overnight.
Drive-thrus would pop up everywhere, as fast as City Hall could rubber stamp them.

Damn, looks like a real city.

Keep dreaming. A downtown stadium will not happen.

if I keep saying that capital improvements to the existing stadiums plus a streetcar extension would be a better investment than a new stadium, will this make it happen? What about if it could be done before a hypothetical 2028 World Cup?

(Fantastic renders though!)

alejandro46 wrote:if I keep saying that capital improvements to the existing stadiums plus a streetcar extension would be a better investment than a new stadium, will this make it happen? What about if it could be done before a hypothetical 2028 World Cup?

(Fantastic renders though!)

It will come down to what the team thinks. And they seemed to follow your line of thinking the last time around. However, this time I think the Royals will argue that we've already done that and we've maximized the revenue that can be generated by a stadium located where it is. And I think they have a decent point when it comes to premium seats and corporate boxes. Those would be huge at a downtown stadium.

I can't remember where I heard this but it seemed like direct quotes from the royals where they said last time around it was really before the huge (visible) sign of rebirth downtown and they didn't want what was seen as the "savior" of downtown. They are much more interested in being a part of a now revitalized downtown.

I know nothing about this, but has anyone approached cordish?

It'll take a serious investment from the team and city and third parties. We're getting close to the point where this needs to be discussed for land reasons and future downtown planning.

If it's a no, we need to stop banking land. It it's a yes, we should start the process.

I think that's what the city manager was doing about 6 months ago....figuring out if this was a thing or not so we could reserve land if needed....

1. The Northloop shouldn’t be used IMHO. A stadium at Washington Park area used land owned by the city. Thus the land doesn’t have to be banked nor does it have to be purchased from someone who prevented development in downtown by landbanking.

2. Trying to maximize the revenue sources tied to this stadium will greatly improve its chances of success. That is why I removed the “Game Day Plaza” in my proposal in exchange for hotels,apartments, etc. I am hoping that this would reduce the needs for public funds.

WSPanic wrote:

alejandro46 wrote:if I keep saying that capital improvements to the existing stadiums plus a streetcar extension would be a better investment than a new stadium, will this make it happen? What about if it could be done before a hypothetical 2028 World Cup?

(Fantastic renders though!)

It will come down to what the team thinks. And they seemed to follow your line of thinking the last time around. However, this time I think the Royals will argue that we've already done that and we've maximized the revenue that can be generated by a stadium located where it is. And I think they have a decent point when it comes to premium seats and corporate boxes. Those would be huge at a downtown stadium.

All absolutely fair points. Would it be possible to renovate TSC stadiums significantly enough to greatly increase the number of boxes/seats beyond the recent major renov?

My train (sorry bad pun) of thought just that maybe voters would be more palatable to a dedicate lane streetcar tied into a larger proposal as it would be something a very under invested part of the community could leverage year round vs. just the optics of giving more handouts to billionaire sports team owners.

I've been thinking a lot about the downtown stadium ideas, in particular having it near 18th and Vine. The city's been struggling for years to get that area working and has poured loads of money into promoting it, so they have a vested interest in its success. A stadium would serve as an anchor. It would also fit in great in context, particularly with the baseball museum right there, and would place it within blocks of municipal stadium's former site. Having something as high profile as a stadium would also help clean up some of the industrial parks dividing the area from the crossroads. It would also be near Arthur Bryant's, which could serve as a big draw for out-of-towners, being a place visited by presidents and such. "World famous" and all that.

I have two particular sites in mind. I used St. Louis's Busch stadium as a reference, shown more or less in scale.

Site 1


Potential view from stands


Site 2



Potential view from stands

You forgot space for a parking garage. Parking today easily brings in $7.5 million per year.
It's always about money.

1. You better have a much more robust public transportation system in place than now.
2. And, yes, a parking garage. In reality many more than just one.