Walk - Don't Walk Signs

[CityLiving]

Why are pedestrians required to push a button on a street pole in order to activate walk/don't walk lights downtown?  They are defaulted to don't walk 100% of the time unless you push a button.  This seems counterproductive to the objectives of the city to encourage foot traffic downtown.  It seems the presumption is that there will not be any pedestrians and that you need to actively do something to activate the walk sign.  This is a minor inconvenience, but speaks volumes as to the city's past attitude toward pedestrians downtown.  Considering the dollar value of the investments the city is making downtown, this seems like a very simple, yet obvious fix.  Additionally, putting a second counter on the walk signs is a very helpful and an encouraging sign at some intersections in and around downtown.  This would be great to have at every intersection as they are in some more pedestrian friendly cities (i.e. Washington DC).

[LenexatoKCMO]

Amen.  In many cities pushing the button actually means that the cycle will be accelerated to allow the pedestrian phase to come sooner.  In KC pushing the button just means that they will remember to light up the pedestrian phase instead of just cycling without them. 

[dangerboy]

There are many lights in the city that *do* automatically give a walk signal.  The problem is that there is no consistency, no standard to say when a particular type should be used.

If want to request converting an existing light there are two things you can do very easily.  1) File a request with th city's Action Center (http://kcmo.org/action or 311 or 816-531-1313) and 2) Contact Deb Ridgway, the city's brand-new Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator (deb_ridgway@kcmo.org). She is very keen on getting a city-wide standard for walk signals all the time.

[KCMax]

Very good point CityLiving. Its not a huge deal, but something that should be addressed.

[RiverMarketDweller]

But these are the same folks who cannot synchronize the lights for cars. It is so frustrating to see the light one block in front of you turn red at the same time your light is turning green.  Mayor Funk claimed this was something he was going to get fixed so i will be watching it.

[scooterj]

There are some intersections where if you don't push the button, the light won't stay green long enough to get you across.

There's been several instances where I either did not hit the button or did not hit the button in time and walked anyway on the green light (a true green, NOT when a green left turn arrow is displayed), only to be either honked at or nearly run down by drivers making turns (3 out of 4 times the vehicle has JO plates).  That's only happened to me once though when the "walk" cycle was illuminated.  "Walk" should be an automatic part of every light cycle, if for no other reason, to protect pedestrians from the psychological issues of arrogant motorists who think that pedestrians only have the right-of-way in certain circumstances.

[jaysonv]

Agreed on all counts.  I just e-mailed Deb Ridgway. 

Even as a frequent pedestrian, I still find myself unsure if I really can walk or not at many intersections where I either didn't push the button b/c the light was already changing or I pushed the button too late to make the sign change but not so late that I couldn't make it across in time.

[CityLiving]

Before I started this topic, I sent the same text in my post to the Watchdog at the KC Star.  We'll see if it goes anywhere.  The second counter was just an add-on at the end, but I can tell you it really makes a huge difference for both pedestrians and drivers.  I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made in DC once they installed them virtually everywhere in the city. I really appreciated the counter and it made both driving and walking much easier and less frustrating.  They have one of these at 18th and Grand so maybe someone at the KC Star will pick up on this and notice the difference it makes.

[kard]

Before I started this topic, I sent the same text in my post to the Watchdog at the KC Star.  We'll see if it goes anywhere.  The second counter was just an add-on at the end, but I can tell you it really makes a huge difference for both pedestrians and drivers.  I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made in DC once they installed them virtually everywhere in the city. I really appreciated the counter and it made both driving and walking much easier and less frustrating.  They have one of these at 18th and Grand so maybe someone at the KC Star will pick up on this and notice the difference it makes.

Have you called / emailed the city?  It's not really fair to complain if you haven't tried yet, is it?  Plus, just talking about it isn't going to get anything done.

To many of us here, this seems like a no-brainer.  But for a long time (and even now) many folks want you to get out of the way of their cars.

[CityLiving]

Have you called / emailed the city?  It's not really fair to complain if you haven't tried yet, is it?  Plus, just talking about it isn't going to get anything done.

To many of us here, this seems like a no-brainer.  But for a long time (and even now) many folks want you to get out of the way of their cars.

Interesting take.  I guess it unfortunately shows how far this city has to go if no one at "the city" had thought of this yet.  Also, what does it say about their judgement if they are willing to spend millions/billions of dollars on projects and not think of this without a citizen telling them?  I think the Watchdog at the KC Star is meant to be a proactive means to encourage change, not just a forum to complain.  The Watchdog at the Star would seemingly have much more of an impact than a single complaint by one citizen.  I believe the Watchdog allows for citizens to channel their questions/complaints to a single source which could have more of a "carrot" to induce change with the city. 

[jaysonv]

Well, I just got a call back from Deb Ridgway in response to my e-mail. 

The good news is that the city does have a plan to install the countdown style signals throughout the city. 

Deb told me that she's working to get the automatic "Walk" signal, but there is an issue with ADA compliance that seems to indicate some need for pushing the button and has some connection to the (lack of?) audible indicators for the state of the signals.

She was very friendly and encourages anyone with any bicycle or pedestrian issues to contact her (broken crosswalk signals, bike unfriendly sewer grates, etc).  Our conversation was very encouraging.

[kard]

Interesting take.  I guess it unfortunately shows how far this city has to go if no one at "the city" had thought of this yet.  Also, what does it say about their judgement if they are willing to spend millions/billions of dollars on projects and not think of this without a citizen telling them?  I think the Watchdog at the KC Star is meant to be a proactive means to encourage change, not just a forum to complain.  The Watchdog at the Star would seemingly have much more of an impact than a single complaint by one citizen.  I believe the Watchdog allows for citizens to channel their questions/complaints to a single source which could have more of a "carrot" to induce change with the city. 

I agree--I think the Watchdog is much more friendly then a Channel Five-esque blindsiding.  The Watchdog is good.

But, with 311 now, there has been much more feedback from the city on issues like these.  If you call one in to them then you WILL get a response back about the issue.  I've received detailed letters and phone calls about issues from engineers, etc about things.  To me, the fact that an actual engineer is replying to me tells me that my note is getting to the right people.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, send Deb or 311 a note, too.  Can't hurt! 

For the record, I WOULD like more ped (and bike!) friendly crossings.  I walk and ride around Downtown as much as anyone.  I'd expect to see a plan of action in the future--Deb will be great at this.

[CityLiving]

Well, I just got a call back from Deb Ridgway in response to my e-mail. 

The good news is that the city does have a plan to install the countdown style signals throughout the city. 

Deb told me that she's working to get the automatic "Walk" signal, but there is an issue with ADA compliance that seems to indicate some need for pushing the button and has some connection to the (lack of?) audible indicators for the state of the signals.

She was very friendly and encourages anyone with any bicycle or pedestrian issues to contact her (broken crosswalk signals, bike unfriendly sewer grates, etc).  Our conversation was very encouraging.

Great news, maybe with a little more encouragement from the KC Star (and a few more emails to Deb - mine to follow) it will happen sooner. The ADA compliance thing reminds me of Melbourne, Australia where all the walk signs were accompanied by this clicking sound (like a little hammer inside a metal box going crazy).  It was something that while helpful, also will be an unforgettable sound that will forever be associated with an all clear walk sign in my head.  I guess that means it was effective!

[jaysonv]

The ADA compliance thing reminds me of Melbourne, Australia where all the walk signs were accompanied by this clicking sound (like a little hammer inside a metal box going crazy).

In Vancouver, B.C. there is a bird chirping sound to indicate it's clear to walk.  For North/South intersections it's one bird variety and for East/West intersections it's another bird call.  It took me a while to realize that it wasn't really a bird since there were actually birds chirping too.

[scooterj]

Deb told me that she's working to get the automatic "Walk" signal, but there is an issue with ADA compliance that seems to indicate some need for pushing the button and has some connection to the (lack of?) audible indicators for the state of the signals.

They need the button for ADA compliance because there is no audible alert?  So how is a blind person supposed to know a button is even there let alone be able to find it?

At some intersections I've seen the button places in very odd places, including a few where it's a good 15-20 feet from the corner.

[kard]

a quick googling turned up this:  http://www.walkinginfo.org/aps/3-7.cfm

Do the new crossing signals going in Downtown (PnL and bridge work, etc) make the noise?  They look like the regular old signals to me.

[DaveKCMO]

So how is a blind person supposed to know a button is even there let alone be able to find it?

duh! they read the braille on the button, silly!  &&&

[KCPowercat]

almost every sign I use is automatic...doesn't even have a button.  The broadway lights are the exception...I'd like to see those changed but I can also see why they did it due to volume of traffic at all times on that street....is it really hard to push the button?

[anniewarbucks]

I think the problem exists in every city where there is no standard in the walk/Don't Walk signs. some intersections will have the countdown on the sign, countdown audible with a pushbutton, pushbutton activated, timer activated or even no sign at all on the traffic signal. for one city to standardize the systems the size of KC would take forever to impliment and the technologies that are in the systems would change yet again before all lights are retrofitted.

[Gretz]

almost every sign I use is automatic...doesn't even have a button.  The broadway lights are the exception...I'd like to see those changed but I can also see why they did it due to volume of traffic at all times on that street....is it really hard to push the button?

  I use the Broadway ones pretty much everyday and have taken to just ignoring them and waiting for true green.  I've observed and analysed the one at 11th and Broadway thoroughly, and in the three instances where you would think it might make a difference, with the green left turn arrow in three directions, using the button does cut off the dedicated left light in one of the three instances (northbound broadway turning left.  I just don't understand why they don't flash walk as the default, since there is ample opportunity for someone to cross even without the dedicated left interruption that pushing the button triggers.  There could easily be a walk signal for every cycle from every direction without affecting motor traffic at all.  It's really not a big deal, and there are many more important things the city could spend money on if fixing them is not as simple as changing their programming; I just don't see why they were set up that way in the first place.