Automobiles.

[chrizow]

i've been itching to purchase a new (or used, i suppose) personal automobile in the next few months.

i have started this thread and generically titled it in order to facilitate a discussion about vehicles generally, specific vehicles (their reliability, quality, etc), the role of the auto in KC, and the like. 

i'm currently a 26-year old single male living in a downtown apartment.  i'm not green enough to fully give up the auto (sorry beccanator!) but i want to be relatively efficient.

auto advice for myself and others?

[kard]

[chrizow]

blah blah blah. 

[kcmetro]

Thanks for starting this thread Chrizow. I too am looking for a new car. I've been leaning towards an Accord, Camry, or Altima. But I'm also open to any suggestions/experiences anyone has.

[nota]

i've been itching to purchase a new (or used, i suppose) personal automobile in the next few months.

i have started this thread and generically titled it in order to facilitate a discussion about vehicles generally, specific vehicles (their reliability, quality, etc), the role of the auto in KC, and the like. 

i'm currently a 26-year old single male living in a downtown apartment.  i'm not green enough to fully give up the auto (sorry beccanator!) but i want to be relatively efficient.

auto advice for myself and others?

Buy USED. Pay attention to fuel costs. Surf the internet to research. Be sure to get a COMPLETE Carfax on any vehicle before you sign the papers. Don't fall into the "shiny red sports car that I look so nice in and it will attract women" trap.

If you can find a used car with low mileage and a lot of warranty or a certified used car, go for it. We've had 3 of those over the last 10 years and have had no trouble that warranty didnt' cover.

But if you can find a nice red sports car with all the above, buy it before someone else gets it.

ALWAYS leave the dealership after you have decided on a car-go have a coke or coffee somewhere with your pencil and paper and think it over when you aren't under pressure. That car isnt' going to sell in an hour no matter what the salesman says.

A bit of advice from a STL car salesman I know who could sell sand to the Arabs.

They will ask you to write down what you would give for the car. Be sure to write a somewhat lowball number. They will go away to the sales manager's office supposedly to get his OK on the deal. This takes a long time-it's when the salesman catches up on the ball scores and his voice mail, etc while you are tapping your foot.

He will come back with an offer to sell that is above your price quite a bit but lower than their original price. He'll ask you how that sounds. You write down a number about halfway between his offer and your original. Again, the trip to the sales manager's office and again it takes a long time. He'll come back with an only slightly lower price than their last offer. That's the time for you to negotiate some extras like new tires or some other thing that might be lacking. Write that down. Salesman takes that to the manager, blahblahblah. If he comes back with another number, its time to walk. That will tell him you mean business and they will get down to the bottom price right quick.

Whenever I buy a car, I talk to him and we bet on how much I can buy it for. Last time, I surprised him.

One more thing-don't pay the automatic service charge they add to the price of cars at big dealers which is supposed to cover "office expenses," etc. Be sure to find out that amount up front and make it part of your offer.

[chrizow]

thanks for the advice Nota!  i think a used car is a pretty good way to go as well. 

my dad used to sell cars and is generally a very intimidating, Alpha Male, take-no-BS sort of guy.  he should serve as an Auto Buying Consultant for people, he's that good.  he has negotiated on behalf of myself and several family members and has always paid like $400 (if anything) over dealer cost AND got the dealer to throw in upgrades like kickass floormats, tires/wheels, coupons for oil changes, etc.   :lol:

my Inner Typical Male really wants an inefficient but kickass little sport ute like an Xterra or FJ Cruiser but the Cheapskate/Green aspect of me says to go for a Honda Fit, Honda Civic, Prius, etc.  as such, i wonder if something like a Subaru wagon (either forrester, outback, or legacy) would be good for me since it has AWD but gets at least respectable gas mileage.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I agree with Nota's advice - I would also suggest that before talking to them, scope out what they have i stock and when they start getting specific about what you want (color, upholstry, options, transmission, etc.) make sure that you have your heart set on a configuration they don't have in stock.  The dealer would usually much rather give you a bargain on something he has in stock than to order you one or get a transfer from another dealer.  "I really had my heart set on a silver one with the black leather, it would have to be a heck deal for me to take your blue one with the biege cloth . . . "

[nota]

thanks for the advice Nota!  i think a used car is a pretty good way to go as well. 

my dad used to sell cars and is generally a very intimidating, Alpha Male, take-no-BS sort of guy.  he should serve as an Auto Buying Consultant for people, he's that good.  he has negotiated on behalf of myself and several family members and has always paid like $400 (if anything) over invoice AND got the dealer to throw in upgrades like kickass floormats, tires/wheels, coupons for oil changes, etc.   :lol:

my Inner Typical Male really wants an inefficient but kickass little sport ute like an Xterra or FJ Cruiser but the Cheapskate/Green aspect of me says to go for a Honda Fit, Honda Civic, Prius, etc.  as such, i wonder if something like a Subaru wagon (either forrester, outback, or legacy) would be good for me since it has AWD but gets at least respectable gas mileage.

My former brother in law has a Forester and loves it. He drives almost weekly from DC to the Charlotte area and gets great gas mileage.

You do realize that you will pay a premium price for the vehicles you listed above because they are in great demand. When I bought my current Envoy, I had my heart set on a Suzuki Grand Vitara-then I found out that the gas mileage was only 1 mpg different on the Envoy. That and the fact that you dont' find many of them used.

[KC0KEK]

You probably won't pay a premium for a Prius because they haven't been selling well lately -- to the point that Toyota has been offering incentives to get them moving again.

[LenexatoKCMO]

You probably won't pay a premium for a Prius because they haven't been selling well lately -- to the point that Toyota has been offering incentives to get them moving again.

Toyota has exceeded their hybrid qouta so you can no longer take the tax deduction if you buy a prius - thus they aren't as good of a deal as they used to be.  Toyota has started licensing their system to other manufacturers though, so you can still get the same system and the tax break. 

[DanCa]

thanks for the advice Nota!  i think a used car is a pretty good way to go as well. 

my dad used to sell cars and is generally a very intimidating, Alpha Male, take-no-BS sort of guy.  he should serve as an Auto Buying Consultant for people, he's that good.  he has negotiated on behalf of myself and several family members and has always paid like $400 (if anything) over dealer cost AND got the dealer to throw in upgrades like kickass floormats, tires/wheels, coupons for oil changes, etc.   :lol:

my Inner Typical Male really wants an inefficient but kickass little sport ute like an Xterra or FJ Cruiser but the Cheapskate/Green aspect of me says to go for a Honda Fit, Honda Civic, Prius, etc.  as such, i wonder if something like a Subaru wagon (either forrester, outback, or legacy) would be good for me since it has AWD but gets at least respectable gas mileage.

I'm seriously considering an Outback - they get decent gas mileage (I think 28 city?), sit up a bit higher, have AWD, you can haul crap in them, rather high end look inside without the huge price tag.  I think they start around $18K.  If they made it in a hybrid, even better, but I've heard nothing about Subaru going hybrid yet.

Currently I have a 2000 Nissan Sentra.  It still runs like the day it was new, so I'm impressed with Nissan.

[DanCa]

You probably won't pay a premium for a Prius because they haven't been selling well lately -- to the point that Toyota has been offering incentives to get them moving again.

I heard that it's not that they're not selling well, but that they increased production enough to finally meet demand.

[chrizow]

Currently I have a 2000 Nissan Sentra.  It still runs like the day it was new, so I'm impressed with Nissan.

i currently have a 1999 Honda Civic EX.  i have been very pleased with the performance and quality of this vehicle.  however, i am facing relatively imminent repairs/maintenance to the tune of $1,400.  i'm having trouble justifying spending $1,400 to repair a car worth $5,000 that i have long planned on getting rid of by 2008 or so.  i figured i would just unload it this year before shelling out the dough.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I heard that it's not that they're not selling well, but that they increased production enough to finally meet demand.

I am sure that it also is a factor that you can now get the same system in a camry or corrolla.  I think the looks of the prius may have been a bit out there for some buyers. 

[chrizow]

I think the looks of the prius may have been a bit out there for some buyers. 

sigh, it's true.  i like some "out there" styling (e.g. the FJ Cruiser) but the Prius looks like a roly poly.  surely they can make an eco-friendly car that won't make me feel like Charles Atlas the 98-pound weakling getting sand kicked in his face.

[KC0KEK]

I heard that it's not that they're not selling well, but that they increased production enough to finally meet demand.

I was going from a column Wednesday's Wall Street Journal:

Or take the Prius, the car that made Toyota a star in certain circles and perhaps even began to redress its reputation for bloodless, uninteresting vehicles. The Prius has hardly been burning up the sales charts lately. With a ridiculous federal tax giveaway expiring, Toyota has been reduced to dangling incentives even in front of California buyers. All this transpires while the EPA is still putting finishing touches on new mileage ratings that will sharply downgrade the Prius's gas performance.

[KC0KEK]

sigh, it's true.  i like some "out there" styling (e.g. the FJ Cruiser) but the Prius looks like a roly poly.  surely they can make an eco-friendly car that won't make me feel like Charles Atlas the 98-pound weakling getting sand kicked in his face.

The Prius' styling has grown on me -- except for that ridiculous center-mount gauge pod.

[nota]

Currently I have a 2000 Nissan Sentra.  It still runs like the day it was new, so I'm impressed with Nissan.

Sentra is a dandy car for sure. We bought our son one brand new in 1988. He drove it through part of junior year and all of senior year as well as his college and his personal life. He didnt' trade it till 2001 with about 150k on it. He took pitiful care of it and it never had any maintenance issues. 2 sets of tires and he always changed the oil regularly.

Get a stick-they are funner to drive.

Of course Sonny traded it for a used bright red Prelude that was a PITA for all the time he owned it. THAT was why I cautioned against being tempted by the red sports car. Many times if you find a used sports car, they have had the crap driven out of and haven't been maintained.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The Prius' styling has grown on me -- except for that ridiculous center-mount gauge pod.

I have heard that their rearward visibility is a real pain in the ass with the chunky C pillars, rakish back glass, and the bar going through the back window.  Someone told me that newer ones are getting back up cameras as standard equipment to compensate. 

[chrizow]

I have heard that their rearward visibility is a real pain in the ass with the chunky C pillars, rakish back glass, and the bar going through the back window.  Someone told me that newer ones are getting back up cameras as standard equipment to compensate. 

christ....how about toyota, like, fixes the design problems?!

i'd love to get a Subaru but i wonder if it's a bit too socks-with-Birkenstocks for me.  i'm also considering a gently used Volvo V wagon (the wagon version of the wee S40 sports sedan).