New AMTRAK route between Kansas City and Oklahoma City

[kard]

That would make for a very inefficient route.

The existing route is San Antonio to OKC.  Extending it 186 miles on to Newton (through Wichita) is all they're talking about now.

If Amtrak wanted to do more with it:  That would allow a Chicago to San Antonio route that didn't go down through Little Rock like the existing route.  I'm not sure which would be faster, but all these folks really want is rail service through Wichita.

[DaveKCMO]

from a NARP (national association of rail passengers) hotline:

Rail advocates in Oklahoma and Kansas are working to extend the Heartland Flyer from Oklahoma City to Wichita, Newton, and Kansas City. A group called The Northern Flyer Alliance has begun a letter writing campaign to Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius (D.) urging her to support the expansion. A major stumbling block will be a statutory restriction that may prohibit Kansas from spending state money on operating support for passenger rail service. Wichita last had Amtrak service in 1979, when the Lone Star was discontinued.

and, separately, a bit of history about the lone star route: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Star_(Amtrak)

[anniewarbucks]

It would be nice to have a route going from KC to OKC. I Know that the Southwest Chief only runs through here at 1:15 A.M. every night heading west. This route will enhance the service. It would be nice to have Amtrak run more frequently on all routs though.

[shinatoo]

It would be nice to have a route going from KC to OKC. I Know that the Southwest Chief only runs through here at 1:15 A.M. every night heading west. This route will enhance the service. It would be nice to have Amtrak run more frequently on all routs though.

A assume you are talking about the Newton stop.

[kcmetro]

A assume you are talking about the Newton stop.

Topeka

[shinatoo]

Topeka

I assumed incorrectly.

[shinatoo]

Newton is 27 miles from Wichita, who cares if you have to drive that far to catch a train?

I say extend the route to Newton, and coordinate with the SW Chief, or overlap the route from Newton to KC.

[anniewarbucks]

That would make sense. It would basicly follow The Kansas Turnpike. The problem with the whole rail system is that most of the sensible routes for pasenger rail service have been torn up or abandoned for routes that more resemble airline stops than train stops.

[DaveKCMO]

Bringing back Amtrak

City of Wichita officials met Wednesday with passenger rail proponents and county and state officials to discuss the possibility of bringing back Amtrak service to South Central Kansas.

Among the officials at the meeting was State Sen. Greta Goodwin, D-Winfield, an advocate of reestablishing passenger rail service through Cowley County.

"My guess is that the Heatland Flyer could be run in three states (Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas) for $14 million," Stair said. "The Oklahoma City to Newton cost portion would be $5 million."

Of that $5 million, Kansas would pay an estimated $2.9 million and Oklahoma would cover about $2.1 million, he said.

The Heartland Flyer could be extended north from Oklahoma City to Perry and Ponca City, in Oklahoma, and Arkansas City, Winfield, Wichita and Newton.

[anniewarbucks]

Bringing back Amtrak

I agree with the article. Amtrack should run more daytime routes in Kansas. This 1:15 Am stuff is for the birds. If I want to ride the rails I would like to see what I am going through instead of being pitch black out. I believe that the US should try to get the same caliber of rail service as Europe has.

[advocrat]

I agree with the article. Amtrack should run more daytime routes in Kansas. This 1:15 Am stuff is for the birds. If I want to ride the rails I would like to see what I am going through instead of being pitch black out. I believe that the US should try to get the same caliber of rail service as Europe has.

I won't argue with anniew about a preference for daytime trains in Kansas, but I have tried to figure out the wisdom behind this from Amtrak's perspective using the current timetable.

The departure and arrival times for Chicago and LA seem to be, at first blush, convenient for passengers there, but all of this depends upon connections. If the Southwest Chief came through KC and Topeka in daylight, then it would be passing through Missouri at wee hours, or over the beautiful Raton Pass in the dark.  But there is more to it, than just scenic considerations.  The ideal is to have the trains connect with others, at least within two hours of each other so that people can keep moving without serious waiting room considerations. An interesting thing about Newton is that both eastbound and westbound trains are about an hour apart (I think), and the timetable for the Heartland Flyer would also put it into Newton in the same general connection time with the Southwest Chief. So for connectivity purposes the Newton timetable has some merit.  Also, as currently scheduled a person who lives in Topeka or Lawrence can easily use the Southwest Chief for a commute into Kansas City at a reasonable arrival time for working in the City. However, there is no convenient afternoon train that can make the return.  Another westbound train through Kansas City might be the answer, and if the Heartland Flyer came on to Kansas City, and returned at about 6:00 pm, the connection and convenience for commuters and regular westbound passengers could be supported (there would still be a layover if these passengers were connecting (westbound) to the 1:15 am Southwest Chief.

I hope this makes sense; but you can see for yourself if you look at maps, distances, and timetables for existing Amtrak trains (Heartland Flyer and Southwest Chief).
 

[Theiler]

I believe that the US should try to get the same caliber of rail service as Europe has.

It definitely needs to be better, but the US will probably always be airline first.  I'd imagine rail is much more successful due to europe's size.

[DaveKCMO]

Also, as currently scheduled a person who lives in Topeka or Lawrence can easily use the Southwest Chief for a commute into Kansas City at a reasonable arrival time for working in the City. However, there is no convenient afternoon train that can make the return.

except that it takes an hour and a half to get to lawrence because of slow movement through BNSF's argentine rail yards... improve that speed and it's golden.

i think this should be a second train. connectivity with the chief is fine, but no one will want to layover in newton if they're just going from wichita to topeka.

[Belle the dog]

Part of the time required to operate passenger trains through Argentine Yard is for fueling the locomotives.  Fueling facilities at Newton, Kansas were removed.  Part of the delay is waiting for your turn at the fuel pumps if there are other trains there first.

Santa Fe passenger trains avoided Argentine Yard completely by using the "high line" which was built to get passenger trains around the yards; also to keep the railroad open in the event of another catastrophic flood as occurred in 1951.  By fueling locomotives and servicing cars (take on water and dispose of trash) in Newton, Santa Fe was able to cut the terminal time in Kansas City Union Station to only what was necessary to receive and discharge passengers.

If a better way were found to service trains, travel time from Kansas City to Lawrence, Topeka, and points west could be cut considerably.  Additionally, some trains operating on a late night schedule (such as the Super Chief and the El Capitan) operated via Ottawa, Kansas rather than Topeka thereby saving time for station stops.  In this day and time, benefits of serving Lawrence and Topeka outweigh time savings by eliminating those station stops.

[anniewarbucks]

i think this should be a second train. connectivity with the chief is fine, but no one will want to layover in newton if they're just going from wichita to topeka.

I also agree with this. If there were more trains running through topeka like the same time in the p.m. The passengers will be able to enjoy the United States more. I think that all trains through europe are on the hour. this would be nice for the US to do. if they want to enjoy a city that Amtrak stops at, get off and enjoy then get on the next train. They could always store their luggage at the depot while they are sightseeing.

[DaveKCMO]

Rail meeting eyes Arkansas City

Kimsey was one of 100 people who attended a meeting here to expand the Heartland Flyer, an Amtrak service from Fort Worth to Oklahoma City, north through south-central Kansas, with a possible stop in Arkansas City.

Others in attendance included Winfield Mayor Mike Ledy, Cowley County Commissioner Carmelita Clarkson, Wichita Mayor Carl Brewer and several other city officials and Sedgwick County officials.

The meeting was sponsored by the Wichita-based rail travel advocacy group, Northern Flyer Alliance. Its purpose was to present the case for bringing back Amtrak and seek ways to get funding to do so.

i was present at yesterday's meeting. if anyone would like to assist (or you know someone who would), please PM me.

[enough]

on tuesday (july 24) an amtrak official told modot's rail passenger advisory committee that kansas (presumably kdot) had just formally asked amtrak to study establishing rail service between kansas city and oklahoma city. 

kansas city - lawrence - topeka - emporia - wichita - mulvane - oklahoma city

[DaveKCMO]

on tuesday (july 24) an amtrak official told modot's rail passenger advisory committee that kansas (presumably kdot) had just formally asked amtrak to study establishing rail service between kansas city and oklahoma city. 

kansas city - lawrence - topeka - emporia - wichita - mulvane - oklahoma city

yes, i forgot to mention an amtrak spokesman was there to confirm: KDOT has indeed asked for a study. it is critical that proponents urge their US senators to support S.294, which would provide 80% matching funds to states seeking to expand corridor service (the same as highways).

did you hear winfield or ark city mentioned as stops? mulvane is a good choice because they have a existing depot, but winfield would be a shoe-in because of the walnut valley festival. there is also a request for a thruway bus connection from topeka to manhattan (there is no inter-city bus service there today). oklahoma would probably request ponca city (existing depot), guthrie (existing depot), or edmund be included as stops north of OKC -- which would add lots of new riders between city pairs within that state.

[advocrat]

I'm in California on vacation, but following all of this news carefully. This is a significant opportunity that could be lost through indecision or lack of response. The Northern Flyer Alliance is spearheading this effort and really wants representatives in Kansas City-the terminus for this Amtrak expansion. I think the possibilities for this are significant; it is potentiallly one of those situations where the whole is greater than the sum of of the parts. It could very well increase rideship on all Amtrak in this region, both the Missouri trains and the Southwest Chief.

[GRID]

This could do some tremendous good for the KC-StL line.  It will help justify MO's subsidy of the line and put more people on the line for trips from KS and OK to points in MO and beyond.

I hope they can pull this off.