KCRag Forum

Oh really, so KC is going to get a Triple-A baseball club.

if our Plaza was crammed into our CBD, then we would be Indy. 

i don't doubt that KC can learn things from many cities, including Indy, but Diuguid's gushing over Indy is just hilarious. 

I read that article also. My thought is, why is Lewis still in KC? Go to Indy! Go flame in Indy, KC might be better for it!

We do need a lot more open air restaurants.

WTF is up with his bashing of Brush Creek? Brush Creek is great! I've never noticed any trash or graffiti on it. What is he smoking?

JJack_44 wrote: Oh really, so KC is going to get a Triple-A baseball club.

Indianapolis 76 66 .535

Kansas City 56 90 .384

KCMax wrote: We do need a lot more open air restaurants.

WTF is up with his bashing of Brush Creek? Brush Creek is great! I've never noticed any trash or graffiti on it. What is he smoking?

it is definitely full of trash after it rains, but not always. it is of course a fancy flood control project. its not a very forward thinking design, however.

I think Brush Creek would be ideally suited for development like on San Antonio's Riverwalk. But detracting from the precious plaza is a cardinal sin in this town.

More people would probably stroll along Brush Creek if its access points weren't so limited.

bahua wrote: I think Brush Creek would be ideally suited for development like on San Antonio's Riverwalk. But detracting from the precious plaza is a cardinal sin in this town.

Never having visited SA, what would you propose? Retail and shops along the Creek?

I do admit, Brush Creek could be substantially better and it does serve as a barrier between the Plaza and neighborhoods to the south. I also think the west side of Brush Creek needs to be beautified.

warwickland wrote: it is definitely full of trash after it rains, but not always. it is of course a fancy flood control project. its not a very forward thinking design, however.

That's because it is first and foremost a flood control project.  The channel must remain deep, wide and unobstructed to keep floodwater from backing up into the Plaza.  I really do not see how we could do much different with Brush Creek.  Its headwaters come from a low-relief plateau in Johnson County where there is enough urbanization (causing rapid runoff) to ensure a potentially dangerous maximum flow which peaks early during a storm.  There is nowhere to divert the floodwater like there is in San Antonio, it has to come down the channel and that will always limit development along the creek.  

bahua wrote: I think Brush Creek would be ideally suited for development like on San Antonio's Riverwalk. But detracting from the precious plaza is a cardinal sin in this town.

my thoughts on this, i should have said this before, but, i lived in kansas city when they proposed and even began work on brush creek, and i was simply amazed when i returned and got to see it first hand. i read the arcticles in the kcstar about how it would be like the san antonio river walk, and ten years later since it is not like the san antonio river walk, here are my thoughts................

the san antonio riverwalk was completed in the late 1920's, the original part, and it had one restaurant all along it, one. and it was a ghost town until after wwII. it was not until the late 60's that shops and restaurants finally moved down there. so, it took 45 years to catch on.

brush creek has had 10. please people, just because it has not happened yet does not mean it will not. i agree with bahua that part of the prob is that it detracts from the plaza to put stuff down there, and that is the number one reason that nothing has happened, but, i also feel that as the plaza approaches max density in the coming years, and all sides of it continue to get exploited, west edge project, condo towers, apartment complexes, office towers, eventually development will get spurred on the riverwalk. give it time. it is destined to happen, count on it.

Highlander wrote: That's because it is first and foremost a flood control project.  The channel must remain deep, wide and unobstructed to keep floodwater from backing up into the Plaza.  I really do not see how we could do much different with Brush Creek.  Its headwaters come from a low-relief plateau in Johnson County where there is enough urbanization (causing rapid runoff) to ensure a potentially dangerous maximum flow which peaks early during a storm.  There is nowhere to divert the floodwater like there is in San Antonio, it has to come down the channel and that will always limit development along the creek.  

yeah, i know. they have been doing some amazing things in europe with waterways like this. i think something better can be done vis a vis green design. something more organic, yet still functional. right now it is all grass, and lots of it, and concrete. i walk over the oak street bridge 5-6 days a week looking at the concrete channel, watching the city hose off sediment from the walkway, or watching ducks float around in a petro slick.
of course we have the combined sewer issue as well..

I walked Brush creek from Jefferson to the K foundation a couple of months ago. I did not see any sign of excessive trash or grafitti.

I did catch of wiff of a chemical type smell in one or two spots and there was some alge in the water. The water quality could be improved but it wasn't offensive. The Star has been on a crusade against Brush creek since the beginning. Somewhat like their crusade against the St. Patrick's day parade. I guess they just pick out some things to be extremely negative on and push it to sell newspapers. Hopefully the anticipated elimination of the dual use storm drains will end all the bashing. I agree Brush creek is not designed to accomodate vendors, but the plaza itself is just a few steps away. It is a good place to walk.

I spent about 3 weeks in downtown San Antonio in 2002. I walked the River Walk at least five or six times. It is fairly overrated. There really isn't anything on the river walk besides resturants and in my experience the food was nothing special. The "river" is only about 10 feet wide and has no current. The best part of it is that it is all below street level so there is not vehicle traffic whatsoever.

You can only eat dinner once a day. The River walk gets very boring when you spend 15 evenings in three weeks in San Antonio. After the first week I found myself looking for places to eat that were not on the River walk to get away from the touristy places. The remainder of downtown San Antonio is basically very crappy. A lot of vacant old buildings. Comparing the river walk to the Plaza would be a joke. I do give San Antonio credit, they get a lot of pub for a resturant district with almost no actual fine dining.

try milwaukee for a river walk.

I wonder if the storm drainage issue could be alleviated by building restaurants at street level with stairways leading down to sidewalk cafes at the level of the river.  These could use tables and chairs that could easily be broken down and moved in case of an imminent flood.  A lot of the atttractions in SA include musicians, venders, and dancers, things that are easily portable.  Brush Creek could be a place for jazz musicians to play to a crowd that may be passing through, for artists to sell their wares, etc.  During flood time, these people will just not show up, since there won't be an audience anyway.