KCRag Forum

A group of people moving into and taking over a neighborhood, but blocking anyone else from doing so is just how gentrification and nimbyism usually works.

A lot of people have to take the blame for this latest attempt at a plan. Looking back on it, I think the group that passed the previous renovations plan probably bear the major fault. Some of them were on this board. That was a huge setback to downtown though most didn't realize it then. It's hard to ask people to invest in a lease and then break the lease for a new place and pay both at the same time. I don't think you'll see a Royals stadium downtown until the first lease expires. First, I don't think Frank White wants to move (though he won't be in office forever) but I just don't know if people in this town feel the urgency or necessity of what they would feel is a drastic move.

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:33 am In the east crossroads? It might have been a poor plan but that plan somehow managed to identify the overall best location in downtown that impacted the fewest existing businesses. There were questions about the ultimate financing issues, closure of Oak, Royals contribution and CBA that were all legitimate questions but the perceived threat to the Crossroads never really existed and that was a huge factor, probably bigger than any of the others for people in the urban core acc/to social media.

"Perceived" threat is the point, though. The Royals never got to the point of convincing anyone that this would be an asset to the neighborhood and downtown, the entire campaign was doing damage control, it never got to the point of selling the stadium and location. I bet if you did a generic poll of downtown residents, "do you support a baseball stadium downtown?" the results would be overwhelmingly supportive. The Royals screwed up the details and then didn't leave themselves enough time to work them out and certainly not enough time to sell it once those details were worked out.

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:33 am Downtown has largely become a residential community with good entertainment/restaurant/bar options. It's no longer by any stretch of the imagination the locus of employment in the KC metro. I believe a lot of people simply voted to keep baseball with all its requirements for parking and traffic issues out their neighborhood. Many simply stated that much. Over and over again.

Again, the Royals didn't work through any of these concerns with enough time to convince anyone that it had been thought through and planned for. Oak was re-opened a week before the election, after people had already started voting, and we never got a new rendering. The explanation on parking was "there's enough, don't worry about it." The only reason for downtown residents to support this is if they want a baseball stadium so bad, they were willing to look past everything. This thread leading up to the election is a prime example. So many in here just wanted people to ignore the very legitimate questions and hope that everything would work out.

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:33 am I still can't see East Village working for the Royals. It may have been the preferred site for years but when it really came down to spending (and risking) the money, the downsides of that location started coming into play.

Even if both East Village and East Crossroads are off the table, for whatever reason, there are still downtown sites that are better than both of those IMO. Whether the Royals want to explore those, I don't know, but I also don't know why East Crossroads would be off the table. The Royals need to hire a political consultant that is willing to tell them that this was one of the worst campaigns in the history of politics and the Chiefs just made things worse. I don't see why the Royals should move on from downtown until after they get a clean vote (no Chiefs) where the most important details of the site have been worked out months before the election. If they lose in those conditions, then yeah, time to look elsewhere.

They should hire a political advisor that’s worked with a famous democrat so they don’t instantly become a target like what happened last time. “Oh they hired a guy who worked for Desantis, he must be evil I don’t like it blah blah”.

I didn't make or get that joke but guessing it was as much about just being inept and not being able to get desantis very far even in a race full of weak opponents?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:14 pm I didn't make or get that joke but guessing it was as much about just being inept and not being able to get desantis very far even in a race full of weak opponents?

Well, I won’t go down the political rabbit hole here but hate him or love him, Trump certainly doesn’t fit the label of a “weak opponent”.

It was about a political advisor who worked with a Republican. People like Jill and some on here had to call it out over and over again. As if you associate with a certain political party you’re automatically the enemy.

TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:07 pm Even if both East Village and East Crossroads are off the table, for whatever reason, there are still downtown sites that are better than both of those IMO. Whether the Royals want to explore those, I don't know, but I also don't know why East Crossroads would be off the table. The Royals need to hire a political consultant that is willing to tell them that this was one of the worst campaigns in the history of politics and the Chiefs just made things worse. I don't see why the Royals should move on from downtown until after they get a clean vote (no Chiefs) where the most important details of the site have been worked out months before the election. If they lose in those conditions, then yeah, time to look elsewhere.

So would you support an East Crossroads location that addressed all of your concerns? Where the people who were being forced out received adequate compensation? Where the financials and the parking and street closure concerns were all addressed in a satisfactory fashion?

If all that happens, I still think there will be substantial "save the crossroads" sentiment remaining. And you'll never convince KC tenants and followers regardless of the deal; it is an ideological issue with them ,thrown in with the high of believing they can influence decisions. And then there's still the Save Kaufman at any cost crowd. But you only need to convince another 8% of the voters.

I thought the stadium as proposed, even if it didn't live up completely to the renderings, even with all the negatives mentioned here, and even if it costs a bit more than expected was going to be nothing but a huge boon for the Crossroads in particular and downtown in general. That's why I would have voted yes if I lived Jackson County and I still believe that. Hopefully they can address what ever issues some think are problematic and get it done. But it still will not be an easy sell.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:57 pm They should hire a political advisor that’s worked with a famous democrat so they don’t instantly become a target like what happened last time. “Oh they hired a guy who worked for Desantis, he must be evil I don’t like it blah blah”.

Maybe just avoid the political affiliations all together. Politics will always alienate a certain portion of the people. I'd be happy to take over as their PR guy. I at least know what not to do.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:57 pm They should hire a political advisor that’s worked with a famous democrat so they don’t instantly become a target like what happened last time. “Oh they hired a guy who worked for Desantis, he must be evil I don’t like it blah blah”.

They should hire a winner.

We've got to get this thing to the Crossroads whatever it takes.

Not that it means much, but here's a rendering of the Crossroads Stadium high-rises viewed from the east. It was hidden in the 18th Street pedestrian improvements rendering I posted back in February.


The original image in question...

^looks familiar.

Would have blocked the view of the hated AT&T barn from most angles from the south.

In that rendering, why is that building on the right a totally different scale? Is it just an optical illusion or is this rendering just super inaccurate?

Those 18th Street improvements are pretty amazing. Really hope they can still make this location work.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:42 pm In that rendering, why is that building on the right a totally different scale? Is it just an optical illusion or is this rendering just super inaccurate?

Those 18th Street improvements are pretty amazing. Really hope they can still make this location work.

office floors are significantly taller compared to residential. Could be that

It's artistic at best level rendering would be my guess.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:42 pm Those 18th Street improvements are pretty amazing. Really hope they can still make this location work.

18th Street is getting come improvements in the form of new concrete curbs near corners, but nothing at the level seen in that rendering. It would be nice to enhance the bike path between 18th and Vine in the Crossroads to this level, but maybe it’ll come later. Improvements make sense with or without a ballpark.

Yeah those improvements were even mentioned as a vision of what the city could do to connect the two, nothing the royals were going to fund in any material way

I can’t believe people are so stupid they assume the Royals are just “good to go” now. They just denied a pro-team with a lease expiring in 6 years. They think they’re safe now? People are so stupid. Sorry, I just can’t take it.

TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:43 am I can’t believe people are so stupid they assume the Royals are just “good to go” now. They just denied a pro-team with a lease expiring in 6 years. They think they’re safe now? People are so stupid. Sorry, I just can’t take it.

Royals average attendance below Tampa Bay right now. Tampa Bay. The city that can't sell 20k tickets to a playoff game. Tampa is averaging almost 1000 more per game than KC through the first 7 or so games. If KC didn't sell out the opener (which has happened in recent years), they would be below Miami too.

The Royals are in more trouble than people there think and Sherman needs to do whatever it takes to get the stadium downtown. It does not matter if he makes the fans angry because he has nothing to lose. The Royals do not draw well at all and they have almost no season ticket base.