KCRag Forum

beautyfromashes wrote:

chaglang wrote:Maybe. Or maybe not.

Does anyone have any actual information about why the deal fell through?

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/ar ... 12353.html

Thanks for the link. None of that seems like the district was being unreasonable. They have an obligation to their students. AL insisting that their students automatically get into the school and district students have to test in seems more unreasonable to me. Obviously AL is confident in their students, so why not have everyone test in?

At the end of that article it mentioned that AL backed off of the Westport HS plan because they couldn't afford the renovations. So they probably don't have the money to just build a new building for themselves. I do hope they get this high school open, because it would be a boon to the city. Lincoln can't remain the only option. But this is starting to look totally underplanned/underfunded on AL's part. It's unfortunate that the district is taking the hit on this because they won't just give AL whatever they want.

From what I hear about the question/argument of "why not have AL kids test in as well?"is this general Charter school rule:

"Charter schools operate independently from the local district, and they are not allowed to have admissions criteria. For example, a charter school cannot require students to pass a test or have a certain grade point average in order to be admitted."

Interesting, thanks for finding that. If this was going to be considered a charter school and AL kids couldn't test in, how could KCPS students be required to test? I'm confused.

beautyfromashes wrote:

chaglang wrote:[...but the net impact of AL on the district's surplus buildings is essentially zero. As is AL's impact on keeping people from moving to the burbs.

Not true. I have at least five families that I know that have moved to Kansas because they didn't get picked in the AL lottery system. They couldn't afford private school and KCMSD was a non-choice.

where did they move to in KS that they could afford?

kucer wrote:From what I hear about the question/argument of "why not have AL kids test in as well?"is this general Charter school rule:

"Charter schools operate independently from the local district, and they are not allowed to have admissions criteria. For example, a charter school cannot require students to pass a test or have a certain grade point average in order to be admitted."

are they required to provide services for special ed students?

Pretty sure there's "soft" testing going on....

pstokely wrote:

beautyfromashes wrote:

chaglang wrote:[...but the net impact of AL on the district's surplus buildings is essentially zero. As is AL's impact on keeping people from moving to the burbs.

Not true. I have at least five families that I know that have moved to Kansas because they didn't get picked in the AL lottery system. They couldn't afford private school and KCMSD was a non-choice.

where did they move to in KS that they could afford?

Depending on where they are living in KCMO there are plenty of places to move to on the Kansas side. And Kansas doesn't have to be the only choice. LS schools on the far east side within KCMO, various options north of the river. And if the kid's education is important they will sacrifice their style of living to make an education happen.

beautyfromashes wrote:Lincoln is a great school, but it's a lottery to get in. It's not big enough to handle 500 more students that AL would provide.

Not sure where you've read/heard that. Currently, it's test scores, first come, first served.

But yes, space would become an issue.

pstokely wrote:

kucer wrote:From what I hear about the question/argument of "why not have AL kids test in as well?"is this general Charter school rule:

"Charter schools operate independently from the local district, and they are not allowed to have admissions criteria. For example, a charter school cannot require students to pass a test or have a certain grade point average in order to be admitted."

are they required to provide services for special ed students?

From what I've read, yes.

kucer wrote:

beautyfromashes wrote:Lincoln is a great school, but it's a lottery to get in. It's not big enough to handle 500 more students that AL would provide.

Not sure where you've read/heard that. Currently, it's test scores, first come, first served.

But yes, space would become an issue.

Lincoln isn't even at full capacity, is it?

Numbers from DESE website would indicate no. Not sure what the cap number is.

2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014
1,096 955 1,002 1,002 963 947 914 896

*sorry about the crap formatting

It's unfortunate that the district is taking the hit on this because they won't just give AL whatever they want.

But, IMO, having perceived high-quality, free academic options for middle and upper-middle class families that will keep them in KCMO vs. KS (which, if we're talking Midtown/Brookside/Waldo is where they will go, despite the options in the Northland, LS) is absolutely worth giving AL whatever they want. These families do not and will not send their children to KCPS, however rational that may or may not be.

An AL system from elementary through HS, especially if it could be expanded significantly over time, would be do amazing things for KCMO. It would keep many "love KC but moved for the schools" families and their tax dollars in the city, increase property values (the big one), with the added benefit of providing a quality education and more diverse student body for the traditional KCPS kids that get in as well. It also might set a template that could be replicated, though that seems more tenuous.

AL has too good a thing going - a high-school has to happen, though it would be great to see them in the old Westport building as originally planned.

chaglang wrote: It's unfortunate that the district is taking the hit on this because they won't just give AL whatever they want.

It is just another example of the District's Board not utilizing their resources effectively to make decisions in the best interest of educating our cities' youth.

How on earth can they justify sitting on empty buildings that someone with the best reputation in the city (amongst public options) wants to put to use? The only answer is they are putting their own petty self interests in front of their DUTY of putting the kids education first. They don't want competitors and its as simple as that.

The KCPSD Board is a barrier to a first class education of our cities' children--that needs to change and the only way it will change if something drastic happens, like dissolution.

kboish wrote:

chaglang wrote: It's unfortunate that the district is taking the hit on this because they won't just give AL whatever they want.

It is just another example of the District's Board not utilizing their resources effectively to make decisions in the best interest of educating our cities' youth.

How on earth can they justify sitting on empty buildings that someone with the best reputation in the city (amongst public options) wants to put to use? The only answer is they are putting their own petty self interests in front of their DUTY of putting the kids education first. They don't want competitors and its as simple as that.

The KCPSD Board is a barrier to a first class education of our cities' children--that needs to change and the only way it will change if something drastic happens, like dissolution.

Sure....that's why they tried to partner with AL. Get a grip.

AL got their way into a prime facility on the grounds of a partnership, but then essentially wanted to establish a caste system in the school and that wasn't going to fly for the district, district parents and would have been bad for all students involved.

I get the frustration, but this isn't all on the district.

Caste system? Who needs to get a grip?

The district undermined the Westport deal(a great use of an empty building) and instead drew AL into negotiations over using southwest...a building already in use. They then expected AL to just drop their core value of an immersion school and basically just manage one of the districts buildings for them? What a waste of time.

But, IMO, having perceived high-quality, free academic options for middle and upper-middle class families that will keep them in KCMO vs. KS (which, if we're talking Midtown/Brookside/Waldo is where they will go, despite the options in the Northland, LS) is absolutely worth giving AL whatever they want. These families do not and will not send their children to KCPS, however rational that may or may not be.

If that is the case then all of the schools in the system should be magnet schools and do away with neighborhood schools entirely. At one time the school district had that option. Southwest High and its feeders had the newest and best of everything, the other schools were second class. Except for the black schools, they got the old, out-of-date rejects.

The frustration at the KCPS for not offloading vacant buildings faster is legitimate. But dragging that into the SWHS discussion is combining two separate issues. A partnership at SWHS wouldn't do anything to solve the vacant building problem. It would only bring that building closer to capacity.

I'm sure there are buildings that the district would sell for something AL could afford and would fulfill whatever nebulous civic responsibility the district has to AL. But the kicker is that they probably aren't in an area of town that AL would want to be in. A fair number of parents had a hissyfit when they bought Longan from the District. (Take note, "the district hates competition" folks) Could AL get Thatcher or somewhere for $1? Probably. Would they want to be outside of Brookside/Midtown? Doubt it. So the demand isn't "we want a hs or we're moving to Kansas", it's "we only want a building on the west side of town, and for the district to sell them at a discount to us, or we're moving to Kansas". Their best option all along was to raise more money and go back into Westport HS with Foutch, or try and buy Bingham.

Honestly, if the district used the Longan sale to lead AL down the garden path on Westport, and down another garden path on Southwest, that caper would be the most stunningly successful thing they have done since opening Lincoln in 1986.

chaglang wrote:

Honestly, if the district used the Longan sale to lead AL down the garden path on Westport, and down another garden path on Southwest, that caper would be the most stunningly successful thing they have done since opening Lincoln in 1986.

LOL. This is true. I don't necessarily mean to say it was a conspiracy on their part as much as it demonstrates their inability to get out of their won way in making progress with the system as a whole. They had a good thing going and it blew up in their face because they wanted to be too involved. Again, it goes back to them making it about themselves instead of just letting this happen outside of their own control.

Yeah, and I'm saying that as a Lincoln grad. I totally get that they're screwups down at 1211.

I do want the KCPS to have a working partnership with AL, but we just differ on how much they need to do to make that happen. IB is a great program and it would be great for KC to have two IB high schools.

chaglang wrote: Their best option all along was to raise more money and go back into Westport HS with Foutch.

That plan was killed by the KCMSD. It's a few pages back in the thread. I don't think they will ever surrender a building for an AL HS. They should move out in there own. Just disappointing cause they likely won't get as good a building and might have to start smaller.