KCRag Forum

Why can't we just bury the lines?

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:42 pm Why can't we just bury the lines?

I was told it's orders of magnitude more expensive to bury existing lines than just maintain them. If you locate trees properly they only need minimal cutback when they are mature. Thats a much easier solution.

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:42 pm Why can't we just bury the lines?

Indeed! One of my peeves. NYC did this in the 1920s. Beverly Hills buried its lines in the 1980s. Mission Hills started, stopped, and then finally just completed the "arterials" in the 2000s. That was a truly painful episode among the many painful "Mayor Betty Lu Duncan" episodes. [Quotes because her mayoralty seemed to affect local politics for decades, even after death, God bless her.]

Where I live now, Palm Beach, Florida, has undergrounded 80% of our utilities. The remaining lines will be in conduits by 2025. (And we have to make them salt-water-hardened to boot)

This is commonly done throughout Europe and not just in fancy neighborhoods. It is resisted in the US largely because our utilities are private, or at least quasi-governmental.

I cannot count how many times I would phone MH in the 1990s to find my father was without heat or air conditioning because of recurring tree outages. Just insane. It is really not common in the rest of the first world.

I would say that is one of the advantages of living in newer parts of the Metro. The subdivisions have buried utilities and thus they don't lose power during ice and wind storms like the older parts of the Metro do. It''s also more aesthetically pleasing since you don't have utility lines crisscrossing your yard. I've seen situations where the homeowner can't really plant any shade trees in their backyard because of multiple utility lines draping across their property. The lines are not only to their house. Sometimes the neighbor's houses also have lines crossing their property depending on the utility poles' location.

A few years ago, during a big storm, the electrical line behind my house came down and became live and the sparks set some of my evergreen bushes on fire and destroyed them. The fire department had to come out. I wasn't at home. Came close to burning my neighbor's garage down.

herrfrank wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:26 pm

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:42 pm Why can't we just bury the lines?

Indeed! One of my peeves. NYC did this in the 1920s. Beverly Hills buried its lines in the 1980s. Mission Hills started, stopped, and then finally just completed the "arterials" in the 2000s. That was a truly painful episode among the many painful "Mayor Betty Lu Duncan" episodes. [Quotes because her mayoralty seemed to affect local politics for decades, even after death, God bless her.]

Where I live now, Palm Beach, Florida, has undergrounded 80% of our utilities. The remaining lines will be in conduits by 2025. (And we have to make them salt-water-hardened to boot)

This is commonly done throughout Europe and not just in fancy neighborhoods. It is resisted in the US largely because our utilities are private, or at least quasi-governmental.

I cannot count how many times I would phone MH in the 1990s to find my father was without heat or air conditioning because of recurring tree outages. Just insane. It is really not common in the rest of the first world.

It's not that simple. Burying conduit and cable in sand in Florida is extremely easy. In the rough, hard, clay, rocky, hilly ground of the KC area.. not so much. Europe doesn't have a great electrical grid. Most homes there probably have a 20 amp panel capacity. Conductors are undersized but not used nearly as much. Hardly anyone has AC. Small fridges, almost no freezers. No TVs, game systems, etc. The wire sizes required in the US make burying cable even more complicated, as our usage is multitudes higher than anything Europe sees.

im2kull wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:38 pm

herrfrank wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:26 pm

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:42 pm Why can't we just bury the lines?

Indeed! One of my peeves. NYC did this in the 1920s. Beverly Hills buried its lines in the 1980s. Mission Hills started, stopped, and then finally just completed the "arterials" in the 2000s. That was a truly painful episode among the many painful "Mayor Betty Lu Duncan" episodes. [Quotes because her mayoralty seemed to affect local politics for decades, even after death, God bless her.]

Where I live now, Palm Beach, Florida, has undergrounded 80% of our utilities. The remaining lines will be in conduits by 2025. (And we have to make them salt-water-hardened to boot)

This is commonly done throughout Europe and not just in fancy neighborhoods. It is resisted in the US largely because our utilities are private, or at least quasi-governmental.

I cannot count how many times I would phone MH in the 1990s to find my father was without heat or air conditioning because of recurring tree outages. Just insane. It is really not common in the rest of the first world.

It's not that simple. Burying conduit and cable in sand in Florida is extremely easy. In the rough, hard, clay, rocky, hilly ground of the KC area.. not so much. Europe doesn't have a great electrical grid. Most homes there probably have a 20 amp panel capacity. Conductors are undersized but not used nearly as much. Hardly anyone has AC. Small fridges, almost no freezers. No TVs, game systems, etc. The wire sizes required in the US make burying cable even more complicated, as our usage is multitudes higher than anything Europe sees.

No TV's?

The movie theaters must be packed at night. I imagine radio dramas still do well there.

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:59 pm The movie theaters must be packed at night. I imagine radio dramas still do well there.

kull's vision of European homes seems to be based mainly on movies from the 1960s

100% moving transmission lines underground, even incrementally over a long time frame, would be laudable for the numerous benefits it would have in terms of reliability, interactions with trees, beautification, etc. Not saying it wouldn't be an expense but it's something that should be nibbled at around the margins certainly.

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:08 pm 100% moving transmission lines underground, even incrementally over a long time frame, would be laudable for the numerous benefits it would have in terms of reliability, interactions with trees, beautification, etc. Not saying it wouldn't be an expense but it's something that should be nibbled at around the margins certainly.

The massive line over Troost would be a damned good start

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:16 pm

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:08 pm 100% moving transmission lines underground, even incrementally over a long time frame, would be laudable for the numerous benefits it would have in terms of reliability, interactions with trees, beautification, etc. Not saying it wouldn't be an expense but it's something that should be nibbled at around the margins certainly.

The massive line over Troost would be a damned good start

Those Troost lines and the matching new ones on SW Blvd tell me they are never burying them.

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:59 pm The movie theaters must be packed at night. I imagine radio dramas still do well there.

What makes you think Europeans HAVE to be actively entertained by television and movie personas?

Yes, most europeans have a TV. Yes, it sits turned off 98% of the time. I wouldn't expect a few brainwashed, American simps to understand this. Especially if you have never bothered traveling abroad.

Brainwashed American simp checking in, though I have lived in Europe and can confirm that yes, they do lead 21st century lives that include watching TV, playing videogames, and owning freezers

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:31 am

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:59 pm The movie theaters must be packed at night. I imagine radio dramas still do well there.

What makes you think Europeans HAVE to be actively entertained by television and movie personas?

Yes, most europeans have a TV. Yes, it sits turned off 98% of the time. I wouldn't expect a few brainwashed, American simps to understand this. Especially if you have never bothered traveling abroad.

I lived in Europe for 5 years, and I can attest to the fact that their electronic stores were busier than any Best Buy I’ve seen

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:31 am

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:59 pm The movie theaters must be packed at night. I imagine radio dramas still do well there.

What makes you think Europeans HAVE to be actively entertained by television and movie personas?

Yes, most europeans have a TV. Yes, it sits turned off 98% of the time. I wouldn't expect a few brainwashed, American simps to understand this. Especially if you have never bothered traveling abroad.

Put this on a banner & fly it over the city, no post shall top this.

No video game consoles? It's like the Marshall Plan never happened!

I live downtown and I've noticed several sidewalk planters where the city has removed an old tree and just left a stump, but never planted a new one. Most recently on 8th by The Phoenix. Do they never come back and plant new ones? I do see where 311 has a template for "Trees - City Owned: New Tree Request" but I wonder if that does anything.

It took a couple years after cutting down the dead trees but they’ve planted some new one in Quality Hill. They’re even watering them which is good to see. Hopefully the same will happen on 8th.

Finding the best spots for Kansas City’s 10,000 new trees

New federal money is helping make Kansas City more green by helping plant and maintain more trees throughout the city.

The new funds come from a $12 million grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture to, “revolutionize Kansas City’s forestry and urban development approach,” according to a city press release.

The city say it’s trying to increase it’s density and strength of tree coverage by 17%.

“The key for this is it’s going to be those other ancillary things that you need to make sure the trees live,” Kansas City Manager Brian Platt said. “Watering them, maintaining them, trimming them, all of that extra support the trees need.”
...

https://fox4kc.com/news/finding-the-bes ... new-trees/

Speaking of the politics of trees...

We used to live south of the Plaza years ago in the Wornall Homestead area. When I was growing up years ago, my parents made the mistake of planting a maple tree in the outer lawn (the area between the sidewalk and the street where property rights are iffy). The city came and took out the maple tree that we had bought and paid for, then planted a Moraine Locust tree to match the others that had been planted in our block. Those locust trees were ALWAYS dropping something. Copious piles of spent blossoms in the spring would fall down your windshield and clog up your car vents, then come spraying out at you when you turned on the blower. In the summer, the trees would drop juicy green seed pods. Those trees were incredibly hard to kill. And don't park under them for any length of time unless you want your car covered in bird poop. Even the sidewalks under the trees were nasty. The dropped pods got ground into the concrete and turned it an unappetizing shade of brown.

Some time later, the city came and planted another Moraine Locust seed-pod dropper in another location in the front of our house where a Dutch Elm tree had died and had been removed. Shortly after the second tree had been planted, I got up one morning and noticed that both of the locust trees had disappeared. Nothing left but stumps. Funny how both trees had disappeared in the space of a single night. I asked my parents about it, and they said that they had no idea what had happened. The city never replaced those trees.

Don't get me wrong. Trees bring a lot of benefits to a street. The trees along Meyer Boulevard between Brookside and Meyer Circle are beautiful. I'm guessing that in the wake of Dutch Elm disease, the city was looking for something that was hardy and resistant to disease. But locust trees are not the tree to plant next to a residential street or a sidewalk, because they constantly drop things.