KCRag Forum

god.  i love this city...but fuck, i hate this city.

OMG, this is terrible!!  WTF!!  Worst day of my life!

kcmetro wrote: OMG, this is terrible!!  WTF!!  Worst day of my life!

chrizow wrote:

Is that the poster formerly known as MaitreD in the background?

FangKC wrote: The reason for the teardown is because the brick facade is failing due to winter damage and water.

Just curious.  Is this a case of the paper not reporting correctly?  Given when the building was erected (1881) it is very likely that the brickwork is not just a facade but is actually part of the structure, in other words a true brick building.  If that is the case then the building may actually be structurely deficient and not repairable at a reasonable price.

Somehow, here in Portland, not many buildings(older ones especially) encounter the wrecking ball. Portland has some pretty old buildings like KC. Most can be saved with a little TLC. Portland has the "preservation" viewpoint, whereas KC has the "destructive" viewpoint. The only difference I see is the people's perspective. Someone or some group(s) has to make a commitment to give a shit.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Just curious.  Is this a case of the paper not reporting correctly?  Given when the building was erected (1881) it is very likely that the brickwork is not just a facade but is actually part of the structure, in other words a true brick building.  If that is the case then the building may actually be structurely deficient and not repairable at a reasonable price.

Of course, the brickwork is part of the structure. It is built of bricks. It can be repaired, for certain, for less than the cost of demo.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Just curious.  Is this a case of the paper not reporting correctly? 

No its a case of you not knowing what the word facade means. 

macnw wrote: Somehow, here in Portland, not many buildings(older ones especially) encounter the wrecking ball. Portland has some pretty old buildings like KC. Most can be saved with a little TLC. Portland has the "preservation" viewpoint, whereas KC has the "destructive" viewpoint. The only difference I see is the people's perspective. Someone or some group(s) has to make a commitment to give a shit.

Is there a KC Historical Preservation Society?

KCMax wrote: Is there a KC Historical Preservation Society?

Yes, I posted their contact info earlier in this thread: http://forum.kcrag.com/http://www.kcrag ... 18#p438118

dangerboy wrote: Yes, I posted their contact info earlier in this thread: http://forum.kcrag.com/http://www.kcrag ... 18#p438118

They just don't seem to have the fight in them.  I don't hold it against them, it is a special person to lead this kind of charge.

Jane Flynn was a powerful woman.  Bless her memory.

FangKC wrote: Here is a quick "cut and paste" email list to contact City officials and their assistants:

mayor@kcmo.org,terri_wolfe@kcmo.org,jackie_burton@kcmo.org,lisa_minardi@kcmo.org,traci_gleason@kcmo.org,melba_curls@kcmo.org,kimberly_randolph@kcmo.org,jim_giles@kcmo.org,susan_borge@kcmo.org,gina_boucher@kcmo.org,schylon_clayton@kcmo.org,lisa_sturgeon@kcmo.org,araceli_gallegos@kcmo.org

Be sure to caption the entire list. It might require scrolling to the right.

Thanks, Fang.  Just got word back from Russ Johnson's office (email sent a few hours ago) that they asked the city for a report earlier today and expected something back this afternoon.

I appreciate the forum's call to action, and then making it so easy.

Hopefully, there is a positive result.

Don't expect the Historic Kansas City Foundation to accomplish anything. They have a very passive approach to preservation in this city. I don't see them as an effective organization.

They are not going to be able to accomplish anything that we ourselves couldn't do just by writing and calling City officials and shaming them into taking some sort of action.

Yes, Rick Powell should have taken measures to protect the building from winter damage before it happened.  Keep in mind, that he is getting tax-increment financing from the City for this development. The City should have an interest in protecting historic assets, and Powell should have taken measures to stabilize the building and make sure the roof was in decent condition. Given the TIF funding, the City should have required that he do so, and been more involved in monitoring the building via the City inspection unit.

I'm sure that Powell also applied for, and received, federal and state historic tax credits for renovating the Union Carbide Building. The Cosby Hotel would also be eligible for listing on the National Register--as would the Lane Printing Bldg.  I'm saying that resources were available. He is getting financing from the federal, state, and local level to lower his costs.

I'm not a real estate person, but it seems to me that it would be much easier to land a tenant if the building had been renovated already.  Trying to lure a tenant into an unfinished building would appear much more difficult.

It's like buying a house. Are you more inclined to purchase a house in finished condition, or one that is a wreck?

Just received this email from Ed Ford's office:

"Unfortunately, we learned of this potential building demolition last week. An engineer found that it was structurally unsound therefore, the City would be liable should a collapse occur similar to the recent building collapse in midtown that took a pedestrian's life. This is not something taken lightly considering the cost of this demolition will nearly deplete the City's building demolition budget for the year.

Councilman Ford agrees that it would be ideal to keep this historical structure, however, the City's Law Department feels that the liability is too great.

Thank you for taking the time to write.


Lisa Minardi
Aide to Councilman Ed Ford
816-513-1601
fax 816-513-1612"

Total, utter bullshit.

Here is the email I sent to the Mayor and Council members. In it, I provide examples of other developers actions in regards to historic assets downtown. I also call for  new ordinances to protect historic buildings, and in designed historic districts where the individual building doesn't have that designation. My proposed ordinance also calls for more strident inspections of vacant historic structures on the Register, and those that would be eligible for later designation, that are awaiting redevelopment.  Keep in mind I wrote this before Collison's Star article was published.

---

It has come to my attention that the former Cosby Hotel, a historic building  located on the southwest corner of W. 9th and Baltimore, is to be demolished.

http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?topic=16836.0

It appears that an emergency demolition permit has been issued by the
City.

http://kivaweb.kcmo.org/kivanet/2/permi ... 1&jur=KCMO

As a resident interested in preserving the history and architecture of
downtown, I must protest this action. This historic structure, built in
1881, contributes to the architectural integrity and fabric of the W.
9th Street and Baltimore Historic District.

The building was among those listed in 1994 as the most significant
historic buildings remaining downtown that were worthy of preservation
and reuse by the Kansas City Chapter of the American Institute of
Architects.

http://kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.p ... OX=1&REC=2

I am suspicious of this “emergency demolition.” The building has
stood for 129 years and is suddenly dangerous?

Let me remind you of the quick demolition of a building that was on the
National Register. The Law Building had a demolition permit issued, and
was demolished, in the period of just a few days. The permit was issued
near the weekend, and the demolition started on a Monday before the
local media could report on it. The owner of that property reported
that the sale of his property--to a mysterious out-of-town buyer, was
contingent on the Law Building being demolished. Once the property was
torn down, the sale never went through and the mysterious buyer was
never revealed. In the process, we lost one of our historic structures
without explanation.

Another close call was Executive Hills attempt to demolish the Empire
Theater. Again, a permit was issued late on a Thursday afternoon to
take advantage of the weekend when City officials were not working, and
to avoid media scrutiny. This was a building that had previously been
identified by the City for future reuse in the Power & Light District.
Still, Executive Hills attempted to demolish it.

Had I not been monitoring the Kivanet permitting web site on a daily
basis, I wouldn’t have been able to notify the local media in time to
publicize Executive Hills intentions, and give City officials time to
intervene to save the Empire Theater. Now we are so proud that it
stands reused in our Power & Light District. But people need to be
reminded that we almost lost it to a sneaky property owner who
attempted to circumvent the public’s wishes for the building.

My point in bringing this up is because developers often seek to
demolish historic buildings on the National Register, and those that would be eligible for designation, using sneaky tactics.

Before this building is demolished under emergency provisions, the City
should send independent inspectors to evaluate whether the structure
can be stabilized and saved. Buildings in much worse condition have
been saved. Walls can be stabilized. Dangerous roofing and facade
elements can be removed temporarily while preserving the building.

There is little parking controlled by the developer of the Union
Carbide, Lane Printing, and Cosby Hotel buildings. Thus, there is
plenty of motive for the developer to want to demolish the Cosby Hotel
just to provide additional parking for the development.

If the developer is getting tax-increment financing from the City to
redevelop these properties, it should be required that everything be
done to save the Cosby Hotel, because public financing is involved, and
residents have an interest in seeing this historic property saved.

It is up to City leaders to protect historic assets in downtown, and
elsewhere, from ill intentions by greedy property owners. It is my
expectation that you and other City leaders will investigate this
situation before we lose yet another historic building.

Let me remind you of the economic value of historic districts and
structure to cities. Let me also point out that once we lose
structures downtown, the parcels often remain vacant for decades--some
50 years and more.

It might be time for the Mayor and Council to consider passing an
ordinance that all structures on the National Register of Historic
Places, and those that would be eligible for designation later, must undergo a stringent review process before issuance of a
demolition permit. This would include a public hearing be held 30 days
after the request for demolition to give experts and the public time to
comment.

Another part of this ordinance would require that historic buildings, and in contributing historic
districts, should be evaluated by independent inspectors prior to
issuance of an emergency demolition permit--within 24 hours of the initial  emergency permit.

In addition, it might be worth considering adding to the resolution a
requirement that any vacant building on the National Register of
Historic Places, and those that would be eligible for designation and historic tax credits later, that exists downtown or in a designated historic district, undergo a yearly evaluation by City inspectors to
determine the integrity of the structure to avoid the need for
emergency demolitions. Some times the property owners deliberately let
historic buildings deteriorate to justify their
demolition. I feel this was true in the case of the Empire Theater.

Even though the Empire Theater was not on the National Register at the
time, had Executive Hills been required to maintain the roof to prevent
water damage, the City and Cordish would have probably saved millions
in its renovation. I know the City can't do this for all old
structures in the City. However, the City might require that buildings
within the downtown business district, and in or near specific historic
districts, undergo more frequent and stringent inspections to preserve
historic assets for future reuse.

smh wrote: Just received this email from Ed Ford's office:

"Unfortunately, we learned of this potential building demolition last week. An engineer found that it was structurally unsound therefore, the City would be liable should a collapse occur similar to the recent building collapse in midtown that took a pedestrian's life. This is not something taken lightly considering the cost of this demolition will nearly deplete the City's building demolition budget for the year.

Councilman Ford agrees that it would be ideal to keep this historical structure, however, the City's Law Department feels that the liability is too great.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

Lisa Minardi

Total, utter bullshit.

This is unacceptable.  The City is using liability as a justification to do nothing to protect a historic structure.

Measures could be taken to minimalize the risk to the public. Why can't the City simply block off the area around the building?   Doesn't the City have to block off the area to demolish it anyway to minimize risk to the public during demolition?

The simplest and cheapest solution is to just block the sidewalks around the building.  Thus, why can't the City set up blockades of the street around the building and require that emergency crews come in and set up structural supports to stabilize the building walls until it can be repaired?

Hell, I would be for shutting down Baltimore and W. 9th Street temporarily until this can be accomplished.

I can think of other buildings in this city that are dangerous and haven't been demolished. The Vine Street Workhouse is a shell, and anyone can walk up to it and enter it.  The same is true for the old Wheatley-Provident hospital at 19th and Forest.  What about the Laugh-O-Gram Studios building at 31st and Forest?  It was collapsing and doesn't have a roof.  Volunteers raised money to stabilize it, and there was a protective blockade around it for months.  Then there was the carriage house at Blossom House at 12th and Pennsylvania that had collapsing walls and no roof structure for years, and it was on a public alley.  Why didn't the City have concern for public safety in those situations for years and years?

smh wrote: Just received this email from Ed Ford's office:

"Unfortunately, we learned of this potential building demolition last week. An engineer found that it was structurally unsound therefore, the City would be liable should a collapse occur similar to the recent building collapse in midtown that took a pedestrian's life. This is not something taken lightly considering the cost of this demolition will nearly deplete the City's building demolition budget for the year.

Councilman Ford agrees that it would be ideal to keep this historical structure, however, the City's Law Department feels that the liability is too great.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

Lisa Minardi
Aide to Councilman Ed Ford
816-513-1601
fax 816-513-1612"

Total, utter bullshit.

smh, send that email to Kevin Collison at the Star.

kcollison@kcstar.com

Surely he could write an article pointing out the City's selective demolition choice and point out that there are other buildings in this City that would be considered dangerous to the public.

FangKC wrote:
smh, send that email to Kevin Collison at the Star.

kcollison@kcstar.com

Surely he could write an article pointing out the City's selective demolition choice and point out that there are other buildings in this City that would be considered dangerous to the public.

Done. I'll keep everyone posted on developments

Hey lawyers, is there any way to get some kind of temporary restraining order or injunction against the demolition of this building until such a time as an independent structural analysis can be performed? And, if so, would anyone else be interested in throwing some money at it?

mean wrote: Hey lawyers, is there any way to get some kind of temporary restraining order or injunction against the demolition of this building until such a time as an independent structural analysis can be performed? And, if so, would anyone else be interested in throwing some money at it?

Well, I know I am still banned from the forum and all but I would donate gladly to this cause, I donate to other KC causes frequently.