KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[KCPowercat]

Walnut through P&L wouldn't be a good option to me....lots of touristy pedestrians in a tight space.

[DaveKCMO]

unwrapped!

[img width=800]http://i53.twitgoo.com/oud061.jpg[/img]

[img width=800]http://i55.twitgoo.com/164c4n.jpg[/img]

[coreyo]

Is 2015 really the earliest this could go live?

[macnw]

That argument from Cordish is bullshit. The light rail in Portland cuts right through the heart of downtown retail corridor. Pioneer Square has concerts, festivals, movies etc.. The light rail passes by big retail mall anc actually increases foot traffic downtown by transporting suburbanites to the city center. There have been a few times when someone has got hit by the light rail, but a few times over ten years isn't too bad.

[KCPowercat]

That's pretty damn quick given funding isn't in place

[smh]

That's pretty damn quick given funding isn't in place

But I want it now!

Actually, on a more constructive note, on the MAX this morning people were discussing the streetcar before we got to Union Station. Once we got there people were craning their necks to see the streetcar. Seemed like some pretty positive buzz.

I found it surreal seeing it sit there in the street. Obviously it is part of the whole campaign to drum up support, but seeing it up close in real life really does make the whole project much more real and tangible than just looking at lines in the newspaper dreaming about the what ifs.

[GRID]

But I want it now!

Actually, on a more constructive note, on the MAX this morning people were discussing the streetcar before we got to Union Station. Once we got there people were craning their necks to see the streetcar. Seemed like some pretty positive buzz.

I found it surreal seeing it sit there in the street. Obviously it is part of the whole campaign to drum up support, but seeing it up close in real life really does make the whole project much more real and tangible than just looking at lines in the newspaper dreaming about the what ifs.

The city brought in a full blown light rail train for the city backed light rail proposal that went down in flames.  I volunteered to be on the train to answer questions and while everybody seemed interested, the general public killed it.  That's why any transit vote will never pass a city wide vote in KCMO (and why KCMO should have used the chastain vote to get something done, by a modification).  It's a good thing this is not a city wide vote.

By the way, I made the mistake of reading the comments of the star article.

I'm sorry, but KC has to be the most self hating city out there.  Why do JoCo people absolutely hate KCMO so fucking much?  It's the only reason I started to hate JoCo (after seeing how much they hate kcmo).  I love kc, but kansas ruins the vibe of the city, it really does.  Makes me not want to come back just to avoid the whole JoCo thing.  It's that bad.

Seriously, KC has serious issues when it comes to the state line.

Anyway.  I think this has a ton of obstacles.  While I hate the way they close grand (I just think its dumb), I can also see issues that Cordish has.  Construction of any mass transit, even streetcars, is extremely disruptive to businesses and you can find many examples across the country.

Also, rail transit can be a thug magnet.  I know that's not PC, but it is what it is and in a city like KCMO where there is a lot of ghetto and crime very close to the central city, that is something Cordish is trying to avoid.  You really can't blame them.

I think something will get worked out though.  It seems like there is a lot more passion to get this done.  Why does it have to go "through" the district?  Why not go down Broadway?

The central corridor of KCMO is like 10 blocks wide.  Very walkable east to west.

Or better yet, run it down Oak and spark some investment east of Grand, it's god awful over there and streetcars might be one of the only things that might get something going.  Why not run it down Oak, then across Truman to Main catching the the river market, gov distict, back side of sprint, south side of P&L, over to convention center, PAC and south to Union Station?

[KC-wildcat]

I drive and walk down Walnut at a minimum of 5 days a week. I think it's actually exactly as congested as i think.

Yeah, I live on Walnut.  So, I'm in it quite frequently as well.  Not congested.  Much less traffic than Grand or Main. 

I actually like the Walnut route.  Most central.  Least traffic.  And less disruption as it is one way for the majority of the route. 

[KC-wildcat]

Or better yet, run it down Oak and spark some investment east of Grand

Oak = BAD PLAN.  

We don't need to spark investment east of Grand.  We need to spark investment on Grand; in the CBD in general.  

The horse is dead.  Don't focus on developing other parts of downtown until we've acheived real density in the CBD.  Plenty of dead space on Grand, Walnut, Main to address before we start heading out to the hinterlands.  

I don't have the words to explain why Oak is such a bad idea.  In short, if this thing is a circulator, it must be close to the people it's intended to circulate (i.e. residents, workers, tourists).  Oak is the furthest route from all of these people.  

Broadway, on the other hand, I could support.  Maybe this would kick start development of the west-PAC zone.  Grand/Main still best options IMO

[ColumbusParkian]

aren't touristy pedestrians some of the people we'd like using the new streetcar?

[Highlander]

Oak = BAD PLAN.  

We don't need to spark investment east of Grand.  We need to spark investment on Grand; in the CBD in general.  

Agreed.  It has to be either Main or Grand (although I think Walnut through downtown would be fine too).  That's the only way it works.  Transit follows the people, not the other way around.  Transit-oriented development might work between two premier destinations but, in this case, one of those destinations IS downtown so it has to be where the people are downtown. 

My biggest gripe against Chastain's stupid proposals were the routes he proposed....through Penn Valley Park and west of the crossroads avoiding the most of the denser parts of DT just so he could run it through Union Station and, even more so, provide an impotus for the destruction of Science City.  Let's think about moving people before we get ahead of ourselves with TOD possibilities. 

Cordish needs to give a little here, I don't understand their reluctance to the proposed routes because in the long run, they benefit greatly.  In any event, I would change nothing about the routes to appease them. 

[KCPowercat]

True....I can't pinpoint why walnut doesn't seem right to me.

[zonk]

I was just down at US.  The streetcar is out on display....LOOKS BAD ASS!!! 

[KCMax]

Concur. Very slick and cool. Everyone around me seemed way impressed.

But its VERY slow. I must've sat there for about 15 minutes and it never even LEFT Union Station! WTF???? 

[Pork Chop]

Concur. Very slick and cool. Everyone around me seemed way impressed.

But its VERY slow. I must've sat there for about 15 minutes and it never even LEFT Union Station! WTF???? 

[KCPowercat]

Obviously needs a dedicated lane and off board ticketing then.

[mister816]

i'm stuck at work and couldn't make it out there.  did any of you happen to snap any pictures?

[pash]

.

[kclofter]

But its VERY slow.

The batteries last longer that way.

[mister816]

thanks pash.