KCRag Forum

Posted: **Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:14 pm**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:07 pm Take this internal resident vs HOA drama to your next meeting, this is silly on here. There is nothing crimsl about moving more funds to your reserve fund jfc

You really need to stop commenting until after you've read through the building documents and watched the videos. They're pretty damning. If the HOA is doing what they appear to be doing people are probably going to be going to jail. Whether that's by way of the building collapsing by neglect (Like the Surfside disaster) or for financial crimes.. I'm pretty sure you can't lie and manipulate for the purpose of gaining funds.

Posted: **Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:53 pm**

If we had threads about every HOA drama, that's all this site would be. You obviously have ulterior motives here and that's why I don't think it's appropriate.

Posted: **Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:02 pm**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:53 pm If we had threads about every HOA drama, that's all this site would be. You obviously have ulterior motives here and that's why I don't think it's appropriate.

A buildings survival being threatened isn't "just another HOA drama". It's a significant, appalling occurrence. Especially since it's the former Mercantile Bank Building, an extremely architecturally important 20 story high-rise in Kansas City on the national historic register. This forum was built around like minded people caring and sharing about situations like this.

I shouldn't have to tell you that, as you've been here about as long as I have been. I'm sure we had what.. 80 plus pages about the old Hanna Rubber Company bungalow in 2003?

Posted: **Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 pm**

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:10 am Over/under that this building collapses in the next 48 hours? Apparently the HOA drained and refilled the main support columns this summer with a fluid that has a freezing point of just -13F.

I'm assuming everyone on here knows what happens when you freeze water based liquids?

The temp got down to -16. It appears the freeze point wasn't -13 after all.

Posted: **Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:48 pm**

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 pm
im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:10 am Over/under that this building collapses in the next 48 hours? Apparently the HOA drained and refilled the main support columns this summer with a fluid that has a freezing point of just -13F.

I'm assuming everyone on here knows what happens when you freeze water based liquids?
The temp got down to -16. It appears the freeze point wasn't -13 after all.

The temperature downtown only reached -9. Downtowns mass effects air temps. Also, I didn't think the freeze point was being debated? -13 is literally from the manufacturer. The city was involved behind the scenes and had white knuckles.

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/climate?wfo=eax

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:07 am**

im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:48 pm
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 pm
im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:10 am Over/under that this building collapses in the next 48 hours? Apparently the HOA drained and refilled the main support columns this summer with a fluid that has a freezing point of just -13F.

I'm assuming everyone on here knows what happens when you freeze water based liquids?
The temp got down to -16. It appears the freeze point wasn't -13 after all.
The temperature downtown only reached -9. Downtowns mass effects air temps. Also, I didn't think the freeze point was being debated? -13 is literally from the manufacturer. The city was involved behind the scenes and had white knuckles.

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/climate?wfo=eax

Did you work on the project? You seem to act like you know a lot about the work done on this building.

If the city was really that worried about the freeze point they would have done something.....you claim it only was -9 downtown. A mere 4 degrees from disaster as you predicted on this thread yet no action from the city such as evacuating the building.

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 am**

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:07 am
im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:48 pm
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 pm

The temp got down to -16. It appears the freeze point wasn't -13 after all.
The temperature downtown only reached -9. Downtowns mass effects air temps. Also, I didn't think the freeze point was being debated? -13 is literally from the manufacturer. The city was involved behind the scenes and had white knuckles.

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/climate?wfo=eax
Did you work on the project? You seem to act like you know a lot about the work done on this building.

If the city was really that worried about the freeze point they would have done something.....you claim it only was -9 downtown. A mere 4 degrees from disaster as you predicted on this thread yet no action from the city such as evacuating the building.

That's an ignorant take. No one claimed it would immediately cause a disaster if the fire suppression fluid froze. What it does introduce is added stress to the steel supports from excess cycles of the fluid freezing and thawing which has the possibility to reduce their strength over time; as well as a potentially adverse reaction if a fire were to take place while it was frozen.

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:16 am**

KC_Ari wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 am

That's an ignorant take. No one claimed it would immediately cause a disaster if the fire suppression fluid froze.

Not to give any air to posts I find to be untrustworthy but that's exactly what was inferred in this thread.

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:10 am Over/under that this building collapses in the next 48 hours? Apparently the HOA drained and refilled the main support columns this summer with a fluid that has a freezing point of just -13F.

I'm assuming everyone on here knows what happens when you freeze water based liquids?

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:25 am**

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:07 am
im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:48 pm
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 pm

The temp got down to -16. It appears the freeze point wasn't -13 after all.
The temperature downtown only reached -9. Downtowns mass effects air temps. Also, I didn't think the freeze point was being debated? -13 is literally from the manufacturer. The city was involved behind the scenes and had white knuckles.

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/climate?wfo=eax
Did you work on the project? You seem to act like you know a lot about the work done on this building.

If the city was really that worried about the freeze point they would have done something.....you claim it only was -9 downtown. A mere 4 degrees from disaster as you predicted on this thread yet no action from the city such as evacuating the building.

I do know a lot about the work done on this building. What would you like to know?

Closely monitoring the situation often results in visible inaction. For obvious reasons.

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:21 am**

KC_Ari wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 am
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:07 am
im2kull wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:48 pm

The temperature downtown only reached -9. Downtowns mass effects air temps. Also, I didn't think the freeze point was being debated? -13 is literally from the manufacturer. The city was involved behind the scenes and had white knuckles.

https://www.weather.gov/wrh/climate?wfo=eax
Did you work on the project? You seem to act like you know a lot about the work done on this building.

If the city was really that worried about the freeze point they would have done something.....you claim it only was -9 downtown. A mere 4 degrees from disaster as you predicted on this thread yet no action from the city such as evacuating the building.
That's an ignorant take. No one claimed it would immediately cause a disaster if the fire suppression fluid froze. What it does introduce is added stress to the steel supports from excess cycles of the fluid freezing and thawing which has the possibility to reduce their strength over time; as well as a potentially adverse reaction if a fire were to take place while it was frozen.

You need to read through posts from the last month or so because someone did indeed claim the solution would freeze and cause a disaster.

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:03 am**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:16 am
KC_Ari wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 am

That's an ignorant take. No one claimed it would immediately cause a disaster if the fire suppression fluid froze.
Not to give any air to posts I find to be untrustworthy but that's exactly what was inferred in this thread.

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:10 am Over/under that this building collapses in the next 48 hours? Apparently the HOA drained and refilled the main support columns this summer with a fluid that has a freezing point of just -13F.

I'm assuming everyone on here knows what happens when you freeze water based liquids?

Fair enough. I didn't remember it being worded so drastically. I'll still stand by the fact that if there is any truth to the statements, that it is concerning.

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:15 am**

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:21 am
KC_Ari wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 am
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:07 am

Did you work on the project? You seem to act like you know a lot about the work done on this building.

If the city was really that worried about the freeze point they would have done something.....you claim it only was -9 downtown. A mere 4 degrees from disaster as you predicted on this thread yet no action from the city such as evacuating the building.
That's an ignorant take. No one claimed it would immediately cause a disaster if the fire suppression fluid froze. What it does introduce is added stress to the steel supports from excess cycles of the fluid freezing and thawing which has the possibility to reduce their strength over time; as well as a potentially adverse reaction if a fire were to take place while it was frozen.
You need to read through posts from the last month or so because someone did indeed claim the solution would freeze and cause a disaster.

Are you claiming that this couldn't occur?

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:37 pm**

im2kull wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:15 am
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:21 am
KC_Ari wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:51 am

That's an ignorant take. No one claimed it would immediately cause a disaster if the fire suppression fluid froze. What it does introduce is added stress to the steel supports from excess cycles of the fluid freezing and thawing which has the possibility to reduce their strength over time; as well as a potentially adverse reaction if a fire were to take place while it was frozen.
You need to read through posts from the last month or so because someone did indeed claim the solution would freeze and cause a disaster.
Are you claiming that this couldn't occur?

Hell if I know, I'm not an engineer.

As I previously stated, if the situation were as dire as you claimed, with record cold temps that were supposedly putting the building in danger, one would think the city would've taken action. But they didn't. This appears to be much ado about nothing.

Posted: **Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:41 pm**

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:37 pm
im2kull wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:15 am
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:21 am

You need to read through posts from the last month or so because someone did indeed claim the solution would freeze and cause a disaster.
Are you claiming that this couldn't occur?
Hell if I know, I'm not an engineer.

As I previously stated, if the situation were as dire as you claimed, with record cold temps that were supposedly putting the building in danger, one would think the city would've taken action. But they didn't. This appears to be much ado about nothing.

It's a pretty black and white issue. But, I appreciate your attempts to downplay it. I would expect nothing less from a member of the HOA board.

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:37 pm This appears to be much ado about nothing.

Do you dispute that the building is still out of compliance with the city and that the issue in the original complaint remains unresolved?

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:51 am**

im2kull wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:41 pm
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:37 pm
im2kull wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:15 am

Are you claiming that this couldn't occur?
Hell if I know, I'm not an engineer.

As I previously stated, if the situation were as dire as you claimed, with record cold temps that were supposedly putting the building in danger, one would think the city would've taken action. But they didn't. This appears to be much ado about nothing.
It's a pretty black and white issue. But, I appreciate your attempts to downplay it. I would expect nothing less from a member of the HOA board.

Lol no. Someone disputes your claims and your go to is they are on the HOA board? Weird.

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:24 am**

Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:51 am
im2kull wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:41 pm
Chiefsfan80 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:37 pm

Hell if I know, I'm not an engineer.

As I previously stated, if the situation were as dire as you claimed, with record cold temps that were supposedly putting the building in danger, one would think the city would've taken action. But they didn't. This appears to be much ado about nothing.
It's a pretty black and white issue. But, I appreciate your attempts to downplay it. I would expect nothing less from a member of the HOA board.

Lol no. Someone disputes your claims and your go to is they are on the HOA board? Weird.

Then why are you making such an effort to minimize and delegitimize the situation, avoid certain "tough" questions I've asked, and created an account to solely interact with this post? You speak exactly like a certain HOA board member, and have a username incorporating their birth year and favorite sports team.

Weird.

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:20 pm**

Take this to your next board meeting, this isn't adding anything here and getting entirely too personal.

Last warning.

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:14 pm**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:20 pm Take this to your next board meeting, this isn't adding anything here and getting entirely too personal.

Last warning.

I agree. Back to the facts at hand and a recap of the buildings status:

The city has verified that this historic building remains noncompliant, with a life safety code violation regarding the five main support columns holding up the building and their fire protection system. Unfortunately, it appears that many residents are not aware of this condition or the associated risks and concerns.

New information shows a diminished freeze protection ability of the fluid-filled columns, after the HOA drained and refilled the columns last summer with a fluid that has a listed freeze point of just -13° f. An engineer recommended at least -30° f, and the old fluid removed achieved near -25° f performance. The fire department has expressed concerns about the fluid selection, and the manufacturer stated that their fluid is not formulated for use for such an application.

What happens next is anyone's guess, but losing such an architectural icon to poor management and something completely avoidable would be a tragedy.

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:18 pm**

im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:14 pm
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:20 pm Take this to your next board meeting, this isn't adding anything here and getting entirely too personal.

Last warning.
I agree. Back to the facts at hand and a recap of the buildings status:

The city has verified that this historic building remains noncompliant, with a life safety code violation regarding the five main support columns holding up the building and their fire protection system. Unfortunately, it appears that many residents are not aware of this condition or the associated risks and concerns.

New information shows a diminished freeze protection ability of the fluid-filled columns, after the HOA drained and refilled the columns last summer with a fluid that has a listed freeze point of just -13° f. An engineer recommended at least -30° f, and the old fluid removed achieved near -25° f performance. The fire department has expressed concerns about the fluid selection, and the manufacturer stated that their fluid is not formulated for use for such an application.

What happens next is anyone's guess, but losing such an architectural icon to poor management and something completely avoidable would be a tragedy.

Show something official form the city or stop posting. Your choice.

Posted: **Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:56 pm**

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:18 pm Show something official form the city or stop posting. Your choice.

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