Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:10 pm
Oak is twice as wide as it needs to be. You could take some of the ROW and still have a functional street left over.
Who is building Sporting a new $400MM stadium?TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:00 pm SKC is running away from KCK commitments. Things are happening more than you know.
I mean neither of those numbers are accurate but okay. Glad to hear we are already admitting surface lots will pop up. East village needs less structured parking built but hey we are KC, let's build more parkingDColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:06 pmI'm not exactly sure what you're asking but the biggest difference between East Village and East Crossroads is the fact that the stadium would be relied upon to be the catalyst to more spin-off development in East Village. In East Crossroads, it takes advantage of already existing development and becomes a part of the existing momentum we've been seeing over the last decade.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:43 pm I still need someone to explain to me why the East Crossroads site will lead to spin-off development and we won't see any demolitions for parking lots and the East Village site will level West Paseo for parking and we won't see any development. What makes these sites so different that we will see the complete opposite from a spin-off development standpoint? It really seems illogical and that people are just looking at their preferred site through rose-colored glasses and not reality.
If we're sitting here in 10 years with the East Crossroads leveled for parking and East Village having seen zero development, what will you say? Will it really matter that the baseball stadium is a few hundred feet closer to P&L?
Some on this forum don't see any major difference with proximity to PNL between the two sites but it's monumental. The East Crossroads site, pending exact location could be as close as 200' or even connected via the park cap. East Village is over 1500 feet at its closest edge to edge. That's not connected at all.
As for the possibility of property owners leveling areas for parking, I guess that could happen but the Royals are going to build plenty of parking as part of their design. They need that revenue. It will be mostly garage style parking but of course, to appease the ridiculous concept of tailgating baseball, they'll need to build some smaller surface parking.
Those numbers are down to the inch. Do I need to provide a map to prove it?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 4:22 pmI mean neither of those numbers are accurate but okay. Glad to hear we are already admitting surface lots will pop up. East village needs less structured parking built but hey we are KC, let's build more parkingDColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:06 pmI'm not exactly sure what you're asking but the biggest difference between East Village and East Crossroads is the fact that the stadium would be relied upon to be the catalyst to more spin-off development in East Village. In East Crossroads, it takes advantage of already existing development and becomes a part of the existing momentum we've been seeing over the last decade.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:43 pm I still need someone to explain to me why the East Crossroads site will lead to spin-off development and we won't see any demolitions for parking lots and the East Village site will level West Paseo for parking and we won't see any development. What makes these sites so different that we will see the complete opposite from a spin-off development standpoint? It really seems illogical and that people are just looking at their preferred site through rose-colored glasses and not reality.
If we're sitting here in 10 years with the East Crossroads leveled for parking and East Village having seen zero development, what will you say? Will it really matter that the baseball stadium is a few hundred feet closer to P&L?
Some on this forum don't see any major difference with proximity to PNL between the two sites but it's monumental. The East Crossroads site, pending exact location could be as close as 200' or even connected via the park cap. East Village is over 1500 feet at its closest edge to edge. That's not connected at all.
As for the possibility of property owners leveling areas for parking, I guess that could happen but the Royals are going to build plenty of parking as part of their design. They need that revenue. It will be mostly garage style parking but of course, to appease the ridiculous concept of tailgating baseball, they'll need to build some smaller surface parking.
Did you not see the comment about add another 400 feet? You keep denying there’s much difference between the two sites logistically when there is. If east village was so great, we wouldn’t be debating the location. I said close to power and light. That corner is where it starts. Talk about not being honest.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 4:38 pm Lol. That not where EV site starts and EC better not knock down the east side of grand and who cares how close it is to the yogs studio? Just be honest in these numbers, already agree EC is closer, it's just not material especially given the cost of EC site.
To cordish though it definitely is material difference.
I mean, this is an argument against the East Crossroads site but of course you don't see it that way. First of all, we should be concerned with the overall momentum of downtown and the metro before we're concerned with the momentum of the Power & Light District. And, don't tell me you're also talking about the Crossroads when you've spent dozens of pages denigrating the businesses, buildings and residents of the neighborhood.DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:06 pm I'm not exactly sure what you're asking but the biggest difference between East Village and East Crossroads is the fact that the stadium would be relied upon to be the catalyst to more spin-off development in East Village. In East Crossroads, it takes advantage of already existing development and becomes a part of the existing momentum we've been seeing over the last decade.
The accumulation has already begun, even if the stadium doesn’t happen. I don’t see eminent domain being needed but if so, thise cases usually take less than a year. Also, EC could be far less expensive considering the existing infrastructure. Lastly, the plot to build the stadium could be assembled first as the rest of the lane for the village portion could take longer.alejandro46 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:53 pm Sporting is still investing money into CMH, and there is still the American Royal and youth soccer fields going out there along with the training complex thing. I haven't seen anything publicly indicating they are going to leave.
The Crossroads may be a better geographical site as it's closer to PNL, but the site is more expensive and small. Going to take a lot longer to accumulate the land with various lawsuits from any imminent domain.
Well, first of all, I live in the power & light district and have since that was an option. On top of that, I helped build it and open it and lastly, I've seen what the synergy between a cordish owned property and baseball can be like with visits to St Louis, Atlanta and Texas. So yes, most of my comments tend to talk about PNL. I've also spent a great deal of time in the crossroads over the last 15 years but to be honest, I typically skip the first two or there blocks to get to places I frequent. And honestly, that general area seems to be the most "vibrant" in all of Crossroads.TheBigChuckbowski wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:31 pmI mean, this is an argument against the East Crossroads site but of course you don't see it that way. First of all, we should be concerned with the overall momentum of downtown and the metro before we're concerned with the momentum of the Power & Light District. And, don't tell me you're also talking about the Crossroads when you've spent dozens of pages denigrating the businesses, buildings and residents of the neighborhood.DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:06 pm I'm not exactly sure what you're asking but the biggest difference between East Village and East Crossroads is the fact that the stadium would be relied upon to be the catalyst to more spin-off development in East Village. In East Crossroads, it takes advantage of already existing development and becomes a part of the existing momentum we've been seeing over the last decade.
That area of downtown does indeed have momentum. What better way to risk halting that momentum than plopping down a mega-block black hole for 200+ days a year (yeah, yeah, there will be a team store in one corner of over four square blocks, great). And, it basically guarantees that the momentum in the East Crossroads is stopped as it will just be demoed. But, you seem to only care about the proximity to P&L and property owners getting a good ROI so it doesn't matter if the East Crossroads becomes a sea of parking.
Meanwhile, we have a gigantic festering wound, otherwise known as the East Village, that will remain a gigantic festering wound for years to come if the stadium isn't built there. The East Crossroads site is repeating every stupid tear down mistake we've made over the last 80 years. But, it's worse, because we have the evidence that this sort of thing doesn't work and just leads to lower density, walkability and worse urbanism. The EC site will basically doom us to having almost exclusively surface lots from 8th to the trench east of Cherry downtown. Just absurd that anyone views that as a positive outcome or refuses to believe the obvious. Especially when the alternative is to fill in the East Village and allow East Crossroads to build on its momentum. The gameday experience for the <5% of fans that will do more than just go to the game should be seen as close to irrelevant and, instead, it seems to be the top priority.
Spoken like a new resident who cares not about any of our past. The current businesses there are irrelevant. Weve torn down enough of our city why continue to do so. We have a space ready to go that takes no demoDColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:28 pmDid you not see the comment about add another 400 feet? You keep denying there’s much difference between the two sites logistically when there is. If east village was so great, we wouldn’t be debating the location. I said close to power and light. That corner is where it starts. Talk about not being honest.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 4:38 pm Lol. That not where EV site starts and EC better not knock down the east side of grand and who cares how close it is to the yogs studio? Just be honest in these numbers, already agree EC is closer, it's just not material especially given the cost of EC site.
To cordish though it definitely is material difference.
PNL, specially Kansas city live is a huge asset that would be integral in creating the type of baseball game day experience the royals want.
What’s so amazing on the east side of grand? The strip club? Tattoo parlor? Corner bar that changes concepts every 2 years because it can’t succeed? Closed SOT? Closed food places? I guess the dry cleaner could be considered historical.
The only old and cool business in that section is Cigar Box and I know the owners personally. They’ll listen to reasonable offers.
lol. When do I get to be an "old" resident? I've been living downtown for almost 20 years in total. Sorry, I don't care to have a strip club and tattoos parlor close to my residence. I don't care to have a bar close to my home that has occasional shootings. I could care less about dry cleaning or I've got dozens of other choices if I'm needing an event space. The only thing I'd miss would be Cigar Box.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:12 pmSpoken like a new resident who cares not about any of our past. The current businesses there are irrelevant. Weve torn down enough of our city why continue to do so. We have a space ready to go that takes no demoDColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:28 pmDid you not see the comment about add another 400 feet? You keep denying there’s much difference between the two sites logistically when there is. If east village was so great, we wouldn’t be debating the location. I said close to power and light. That corner is where it starts. Talk about not being honest.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 4:38 pm Lol. That not where EV site starts and EC better not knock down the east side of grand and who cares how close it is to the yogs studio? Just be honest in these numbers, already agree EC is closer, it's just not material especially given the cost of EC site.
To cordish though it definitely is material difference.
PNL, specially Kansas city live is a huge asset that would be integral in creating the type of baseball game day experience the royals want.
What’s so amazing on the east side of grand? The strip club? Tattoo parlor? Corner bar that changes concepts every 2 years because it can’t succeed? Closed SOT? Closed food places? I guess the dry cleaner could be considered historical.
The only old and cool business in that section is Cigar Box and I know the owners personally. They’ll listen to reasonable offers.
No teardown and hundreds of millions needed in infrastructure costs. East Village isn't even a better option if you're trying to save on site prep.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:24 pm Again the actual businesses currently occupying those buildings is irrelevant. Understand that is when you get to graduate. We have to quit tearing down our past. Nobody goes to a city enthralled with their newest building outside of Vegas.
Crossroads is growing already. It doesn't need this. EV expanded our functional downtown space and makes a better overall urban space and costs us no teardowns.
Urbanism at its finest is people driving in from the suburbs and not moving their car.
Trying to stereotype everybody wanting to save our past as "older residents" is just demeaning. Come on man. There is nothing more bland than new buildings built today. Plenty of examples to point to there around town.DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:35 pmNo teardown and hundreds of millions needed in infrastructure costs. East Village isn't even a better option if you're trying to save on site prep.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:24 pm Again the actual businesses currently occupying those buildings is irrelevant. Understand that is when you get to graduate. We have to quit tearing down our past. Nobody goes to a city enthralled with their newest building outside of Vegas.
Crossroads is growing already. It doesn't need this. EV expanded our functional downtown space and makes a better overall urban space and costs us no teardowns.
I'm not for tearing down historic of culturally significant buildings. That's why I'm ok with anything we're talking about in East Crossroads going. This city has plenty of history and a ton of buildings that will never be touched, they don't reside in East Crossroads.
I'm not into saving structurally and historically irrelevant buildings so older residents can get a sense of nostalgia when they walk by them once a month. I'm into development and improving downtown as a whole.
Ending up with the 2nd best option and a subpar baseball experience so a handful of people can reminisce as they watch the 50th business in 10 years move into a bland building in East Crossroads would be very disappointing. I'm worried about the future, not the past.