Re: 2011 - 2012 College Basketball Season
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:36 pm
WHAT ABOUT GOTTLIEB!!!!
Not sure I think it's bad. Always thought he was pretty good. Not sure what was happening at IU the past few years.DiggityDawg wrote:Yeah...I don't get the KSU hire at ALL. Good for my Hawks, but a headscratcher.
He went to the championship game with Bill Self's recruits. What has he done since that '04/'05 season? Honestly I haven't followed Illinois very closely since then, but the fact that they haven't shown up on my radar tells me all I need to know. I suppose he can coach a little bit, but I figured KSU could get a much better coach than this. Maybe he'll prove me wrong.KCMax wrote:I don't really get why the reaction has been so overwhelmingly negative. He's been to a Championship game. He took SIU to a Sweet 16. The guy can coach. Can he recruit? We'll see. But KSU fans seemed to be all over guys like Tad Boyle, who haven't exactly proved they can win with "their guys" yet.
Then KSU fans are being delusional. Martin took the Cats to their best five year stretch since - what, Jack Hartman? To think someone else would have a better track record than Weber or Martin and would willingly come to Manhattan is ridiculous.KCPowercat wrote:I'm no Martin defender either
Are you serious? I'd rather have Underwood, Henson, Eustachy or Gottlieb (assuming he had a really good staff together) and they were all OPENLY campaigning for the job. Weber got turned down for the SMU job.KCMax wrote:Then KSU fans are being delusional. Martin took the Cats to their best five year stretch since - what, Jack Hartman? To think someone else would have a better track record than Weber or Martin and would willingly come to Manhattan is ridiculous.KCPowercat wrote:I'm no Martin defender either
Its silly that people are being so critical. Who was just named Big 12 Coach of the Year? A guy who EVERYONE hated as a hire less than a year ago. Mizzou fans weren't wild about Gary Pinkel. KU fans weren't wild about Mark Mangino. KSU fans weren't very pleased with the hiring of Frank Martin. All those fanbases were wrong.
This sums it up perfectly. Mizzou fans were thrilled with this hire. I don't know if they would have been as happy with the guy the passed over - Bill Self.
http://archive.columbiatribune.com/1999 ... spor01.htm
Those are all fine candidates who aside from Eustachy are completely unproven. You really have little idea with what you're getting.I'm not saying Weber is a better candidate than them (although I think he is) but he's arguably just as good and I really don't get the angst and ire over this hire.TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
Are you serious? I'd rather have Underwood, Henson, Eustachy or Gottlieb (assuming he had a really good staff together) and they were all OPENLY campaigning for the job. Weber got turned down for the SMU job.
I'm saying they're delusional if they think they can bring in a coach with a better track record than Bruce Weber or Frank Martin.KCPowercat wrote:First off me not being a Frank defender doesn't paint the kstate fanbase as anything. Second what exactly are you saying ksu fans are delusional about?
Did he not? He illustrates my point perfectly. No one gave him much of a chance, and look what he did. Hey, it happened at KU too. Roy Williams was what, KU's 7th or 8th option after they'd been turned down by the likes of Eddie Fogler? He was some foolish hire with no coaching experience.KCPowercat wrote:LOL so Frank went from being a foolish high school coach hire to the best ksu fans should ever expect hire. Okay.
Weber has been given plenty of chances. He had 9 seasons at a major university in a major conference to prove he could excel. His best season in the last 6 years was a 10 loss season in which they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. His Kenpom.com rankings at Illinois have gone 12, 2, 11, 33, 40, 24, 53, 18, 72. For comparison, Martin was 17, 44, 7, 30, 25, and he wasn't THE major univeristy in one of the biggest states in the union. I just don't see how Weber is suddenly going to land quality players at KSU. He is by all reports a terrific human being, but when that is the first thing people say about you as a coach, it is a pretty big red flag. I really hope he continues what Martin got on track, and perhaps Illinois was just a bad situation, but this hire sounds like Currie thinks he is smarter than everyone else. KSU fans better hope Currie isn't around to hire the next football coach, or you will end up with some "quality individual" retread.KCMax wrote:Did he not? He illustrates my point perfectly. No one gave him much of a chance, and look what he did. Hey, it happened at KU too. Roy Williams was what, KU's 7th or 8th option after they'd been turned down by the likes of Eddie Fogler? He was some foolish hire with no coaching experience.KCPowercat wrote:LOL so Frank went from being a foolish high school coach hire to the best ksu fans should ever expect hire. Okay.
My only real point is we don't really know how Weber will do, so all the teeth-gnashing is beyond silly. Its not like Webber was some horrible coach - he's coached in a freaking national championship game. If he can do what he did at Illinois at K-State, I think Wildcat fans will and should be thrilled.
He did not do what Weber did. He didn't have Self's players. Iowa State went 12-18 in Tim Floyd's last year and then it took him a year to start winning Big 12 championships. He was doing that with Floyd's mediocre players and his own. He's also built up Southern Miss from 2-14 in Conference USA his first season to make the NCAA tournament this year. Don't get me wrong, I didn't want Eustachy but I do think he's a better hire than Weber.KCMax wrote:Those are all fine candidates who aside from Eustachy are completely unproven. You really have little idea with what you're getting.I'm not saying Weber is a better candidate than them (although I think he is) but he's arguably just as good and I really don't get the angst and ire over this hire.TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
Are you serious? I'd rather have Underwood, Henson, Eustachy or Gottlieb (assuming he had a really good staff together) and they were all OPENLY campaigning for the job. Weber got turned down for the SMU job.
As for Eustachy - he did pretty much what Weber did, right? Win a lot his first three years, then suck after that. They wouldn't have fired him for the drinking thing if he was still winning. At least Weber could get past the second round.
This proves my point about taking an unproven coach over Bruce Weber. How many unproven coaches went on to do great things after becoming head coach? Tons. How many coaches that got fired from a BCS school for on-court performance went on to do great things? None.KCMax wrote:Did he not? He illustrates my point perfectly. No one gave him much of a chance, and look what he did. Hey, it happened at KU too. Roy Williams was what, KU's 7th or 8th option after they'd been turned down by the likes of Eddie Fogler? He was some foolish hire with no coaching experience.KCPowercat wrote:LOL so Frank went from being a foolish high school coach hire to the best ksu fans should ever expect hire. Okay.
My only real point is we don't really know how Weber will do, so all the teeth-gnashing is beyond silly. Its not like Webber was some horrible coach - he's coached in a freaking national championship game. If he can do what he did at Illinois at K-State, I think Wildcat fans will and should be thrilled.
Well we'll see. If all Weber is good at is taking other people's recruits and coaching them well in the tourney, K-State should be in for a good ride next year because they should have a good team next season.TheBigChuckbowski wrote:He did not do what Weber did. He didn't have Self's players. Iowa State went 12-18 in Tim Floyd's last year and then it took him a year to start winning Big 12 championships. He was doing that with Floyd's mediocre players and his own. He's also built up Southern Miss from 2-14 in Conference USA his first season to make the NCAA tournament this year. Don't get me wrong, I didn't want Eustachy but I do think he's a better hire than Weber.KCMax wrote:Those are all fine candidates who aside from Eustachy are completely unproven. You really have little idea with what you're getting.I'm not saying Weber is a better candidate than them (although I think he is) but he's arguably just as good and I really don't get the angst and ire over this hire.TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
Are you serious? I'd rather have Underwood, Henson, Eustachy or Gottlieb (assuming he had a really good staff together) and they were all OPENLY campaigning for the job. Weber got turned down for the SMU job.
As for Eustachy - he did pretty much what Weber did, right? Win a lot his first three years, then suck after that. They wouldn't have fired him for the drinking thing if he was still winning. At least Weber could get past the second round.
You're right that all those candidates are unproven. I will take unproven any day of the week over proven mediocrity at a basketball power.
What reasoning do you have that Bruce Weber would do any better at K-State than his final seven years at Illinois? There is none. Sorry, but I don't want a coach that can't get past the second round with his own players.
This proves my point about taking an unproven coach over Bruce Weber. How many unproven coaches went on to do great things after becoming head coach? Tons. How many coaches that got fired from a BCS school for on-court performance went on to do great things? None.KCMax wrote:Did he not? He illustrates my point perfectly. No one gave him much of a chance, and look what he did. Hey, it happened at KU too. Roy Williams was what, KU's 7th or 8th option after they'd been turned down by the likes of Eddie Fogler? He was some foolish hire with no coaching experience.KCPowercat wrote:LOL so Frank went from being a foolish high school coach hire to the best ksu fans should ever expect hire. Okay.
My only real point is we don't really know how Weber will do, so all the teeth-gnashing is beyond silly. Its not like Webber was some horrible coach - he's coached in a freaking national championship game. If he can do what he did at Illinois at K-State, I think Wildcat fans will and should be thrilled.