KCRag Forum

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:51 am I'm a bit confused, but why does building data centers help us? Aren't they just basically empty buildings?

The opportunity is to become a top tier player in that industry and KC needs to find more industries it has a chance to become a major player in. All the pieces are in place for KC to jump up quickly. The jobs impact isn't just those in these buildings, it also boosts jobs from companies that support data centers such as EMC/Vmware, network equipment players like Cisco, etc. It grows a whole ecosystem. And if Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc build a data center presence in KC, they may expand other divisions here.

Some companies also like to be close to their systems because of the lower latency, so may also attract startups to large companies to choose KC as a location, even if just a branch.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:04 am

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:51 am I'm a bit confused, but why does building data centers help us? Aren't they just basically empty buildings?

The opportunity is to become a top tier player in that industry and KC needs to find more industries it has a chance to become a major player in. All the pieces are in place for KC to jump up quickly. The jobs impact isn't just those in these buildings, it also boosts jobs from companies that support data centers such as EMC/Vmware, network equipment players like Cisco, etc. It grows a whole ecosystem. And if Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc build a data center presence in KC, they may expand other divisions here.

Some companies also like to be close to their systems because of the lower latency, so may also attract startups to large companies to choose KC as a location, even if just a branch.

Medical research, some types of engineering, etc use huge amounts of data center power and could benefit from being in the same metro as the data centers. The infrastructure of the 21st and 22nd centuries is best located in our backyard and not our competitors. I think of data centers and fiber lines as the railroads of the 1800s

Omaha, Des Moines are building big hyper scale centers. DC is the biggest metro and biggest overall as far as I know. Any others big dc players?

^Top tier DC markets depending on how measured: NYC, Chicago, DC, ATL, Phoenix, SF Bay Area.

Largest data center complexes in world, the KC one targeting over 5.5M sqft...
https://analyticsindiamag.com/10-larges ... the-world/

Where they DO hurt us, though, is when downtown high rises are being used as data centers

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:20 am Where they DO hurt us, though, is when downtown high rises are being used as data centers

:eye roll:

Would we have those buildings if not for data centers giving them a purpose? I bet they would have been bulldozed if not for dc.

normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:14 am:eye roll:

Would we have those buildings if not for data centers giving them a purpose? I bet they would have been bulldozed if not for dc.

Your sources?

Here's CBRE data center report, measured in Megawatts inventory rather than space. It's for wholesale data centers so apparently doesn't include privately operated corporate/govt data centers.
https://www.cbre.us/research-and-report ... rt-H2-2020

Each of Golden Plains Technology Park's three phases is planned to have a critical IT load of 200 MW, Hardin said.

So that sounds like 600MW capacity after 3 phases, right?

Whether 200MW or 600MW, it would put KC in top 6 markets by this measurement if I'm comparing correctly. Granted, other markets will grow capacity by the time GPTP completes.

JLL report measures by sqft. KC"s GPTP planning on 1.8M sqft first phase and 5.5M when complete. This again looks to be cloud/wholesale DC's, not including private corporate DCs. IE, most Google data centers such as Omaha area are essentially private DC's so likely not included in either of these reports, not sure. And am not sure how GPTP will be classified, but still gives an idea just how massive GPTP is targeted.

https://www.us.jll.com/content/dam/jll- ... utlook.pdf

Market approx existing sqft/planned sqft
Northern VA 18M/12M
SF Bay Area 6.3M/2.5M
Chicago 5M/1M
KC GTP 1.8M first phase, 5.5M complete
ATL 2.3M/1M
LA 2.3M/
Phoenix 2.2M/1M
NYC 1M/140K
DFW 300K/1.4M

Do we not also have an advantage for data centers because of our extensive underground warehouse space providing more economical and easily-cooled spaces for the equipment?

Hunt Midwest has a lot of Subtropolis underground space for DCs (2M sqft potential) but I think LightEdge is only one operating. Site says 15MW current energy capacity with potential for 100MW capacity.
https://stckc.com/

When Google signed a deed for Hunt Midwest land, was surprising they didn't go for underground space. Maybe there are some downsides like not enough energy capacity for Google, not sure. Upsides are naturally lower temps, natural weather proof and perhaps better physical security. Or maybe Google plans underground as well, unclear.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:43 pm Hunt Midwest has a lot of Subtropolis underground space for DCs (2M sqft potential) but I think LightEdge is only one operating. Site says 15MW current energy capacity with potential for 100MW capacity.
https://stckc.com/

When Google signed a deed for Hunt Midwest land, was surprising they didn't go for underground space. Maybe there are some downsides like not enough energy capacity for Google, not sure. Upsides are naturally lower temps, natural weather proof and perhaps better physical security. Or maybe Google plans underground as well, unclear.

I know owners of two cave businesses. Water intrusion has happened a have some rock falls. Not sure how to prevent the first one other than building a smaller shell inside. With the amount of heat created, I wonder if you would have to drill vents directly to the surface.

^Which caves? I've been in Hunt caves and a few others, though years ago. The one off 31st up from SW Blvd and other off I-435/Truman are pretty shoddy/stinky and not as well ventilated or maintained. One in Lenexa was better but the Hunt caves are top notch from what I could tell, but they could have leaks, dunno. Also wonder about the heat generated, would need pretty decent ventilation even though naturally cooler.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:32 pm ^Which caves? I've been in Hunt caves and a few others, though years ago. The one off 31st up from SW Blvd and other off I-435/Truman are pretty shoddy/stinky and not as well ventilated or maintained. One in Lenexa was better but the Hunt caves are top notch from what I could tell, but they could have leaks, dunno. Also wonder about the heat generated, would need pretty decent ventilation even though naturally cooler.

Hunt, Parkville, downtown near i35.

The caves are naturally cool which seems great for storage but also insulate any heat generated. Visited a factory in the hunt caves and it was steamy.

Might be a reason data centers in caves not taking off.

Grading permit filed for Velvet Freeze. $14 million valuation

Latest CBRE data center report mentions thirst for data center space with very specific needs. Very good chance GPTP space will be gobbled up as available...

Sustainability is a higher priority, with a focus on sourcing clean energy, as well as alternative solutions such as air-cooled systems and, increasingly, water conservation.

Interest in edge computing and edge data centers is rising, prompting the positioning of centers closer to end users to support 5G, artificial intelligence, blockchain technology and media content traffic.

Some users are moving away from a cloud-first approach to a hybrid IT structure. 

The first one, check! The second one alludes to potentially helping draw biz to KC, those who want to be close to the servers/edges. The third indicates a company/govt operated data center located anywhere in country often use cloud as a backup data center or for specific functions, KC may be appealing to those on coasts as backup in middle of country.

https://www.cbre.us/research-and-report ... ds-H1-2021

Also in same report. If GPTP is classified as a 'wholesale' complex, it would likely instantly place KC as a primary market (or close to it) with just the first phase (200MW) expected to be in progress next year. And then 2 more 200MW phases coming later for apparently a total of 600MW when project completed, perhaps more by then. Hard to say how the classification will work though as it may depend on who the tenants are.

Project Velvet will be a single tenant. I would assume that doesn’t count as wholesale?

^I think it will depend on if the tenant manages infrastructure for others or if entirely for their own internal use. IE, if Google is a tenant and uses it for internal operations, it may not be classified as wholesale, which is why Omaha is probably not on the list above. However if Google leases space from GPTP managing the shell/physical space and not entirely Google built, might possibly be classified as wholesale. If Amazon AWS or Rackspace is a leased tenant, would think these would count as wholesale but still not sure as you're dealing with layers.

Either way, the comparison to wholesale DC's across entire markets gives an indication just how massively huge GPTP will become. One of largest DC complexes in world.

BTW did some digging. The first phase via Project Velvet is from Velvet Tech Services.

VTS is tied to CSC Global. CSC Global is known to create shell companies to obfuscate identities until financing and incentives are secured. In the links case, CSC client was apparently Google. Project Agate also associated to CSC project in Lincoln, NE also appears to be Google. CSC also had past associations with Amazon AWS, Facebook and Microsoft Azure but don't see anything specific leading to building data centers for them. It could be any DC/cloud player but Google showed up twice as obfuscated identities via shell companies registered by CSC.

The downside is that if it's Google, that might mean the Hunt Midwest Google project doesn't happen. Or maybe both!

edit: Sharka is another Google project related to CSC.