Phase 2 streetcar on Independence Avenue

[chaglang]

save the date -- thursday, aug. 8!

Location?

[DaveKCMO]

union station, 6pm

[DaveKCMO]

pendleton heights submitted a letter of support for this corridor to the council today. first neighborhood association on record to support a phase 2 extension.

corridor public meetings coming late september, early october.

[flyingember]

There's a simple question I think should be asked to help determine the next lines if redevelopment is the primary goal.

Would someone want to move along the line? (both business and residential)

Because with limited money, we can't afford to not get a return on our investment. If we could afford to build everything at once it would be a different story.

Indep Ave seems like a potential place that could have issues here. I wonder just how much a redevelopment impact a streetcar really would have compared to other options on the table.

[loftguy]

Indep Ave seems like a potential place that could have issues here. I wonder just how much a redevelopment impact a streetcar really would have compared to other options on the table.

I have difficulty understanding negative pronouncements on complex and critical developments, based on "feelings".

Your pronouncement reflects a void of knowledge and it does a disservice to the northeast area and all the people who are working so hard to develop this possibility.

There is ample opportunity to ask questions and to get informed through the frequent public information sessions provided to the community and advertised broadly.

[DaveKCMO]

streetcar on independence avenue would be absolutely transformative for these neighborhoods. it would also spur repopulation. neither of those goals would be met in brookside, for example.

[loftguy]

Indep Ave seems like a potential place that could have issues here. I wonder just how much a redevelopment impact a streetcar really would have compared to other options on the table.

I have difficulty understanding negative pronouncements on complex and critical developments, based on "feelings".

Your pronouncement reflects a void of knowledge and it does a disservice to the northeast area and all the people who are working so hard to develop this possibility.

There is ample opportunity to ask questions and to get informed through the frequent public information sessions provided to the community and advertised broadly.

Excuse me. For a moment I forgot this was the internet. Carry on...............

[flyingember]

I've been through the NE so I'm not ignorant of the area. I do real estate photography in all kinds of shady locations.

The NE has a crime perception issue. Let's be frank, it has a MAJOR crime perception issue. Notice I said "perception" and perceptions matter.
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/08/01/43 ... ty-of.html

Independence Plaza Park could almost be the backdrop for photos in a wedding album –– were it not for the hookers, drug pushers and occasional stray bullet.

How many developers will locate their new residential complex in an area people are working hard to *leave* today. Sure, there's room for improvements but when looking at the number of possible lines to build will be limited, are there other corridors with more developer interest? What corridors have the most people clamoring to live there?

The project can't sell BS to the people who could be voting to fund it.

Be realistic about the reason to build it. Don't talk about redevelopment for every corridor, people won't fall for the idea that there's hundreds of developers clamoring for lots along the miles of track we could build. Make a case based on the strength *today*. And today Indep Ave is about connecting people to jobs. THis line is about making it easy for businesses to want to locate along the line because there's workers clamoring for positions along it.

And if that's done, the corridor becomes way more of a target for new development. And if these people can't get to work via the train, they have no reason to locate along it. This is why I call Indep Ave-NKC the same effective line. Because it's about jobs.

Development hopefully draws jobs downtown, but the NE needs jobs access the day the line is built, not 5-10 years later.

[loftguy]

I've been through the NE so I'm not ignorant of the area. I do real estate photography in all kinds of shady locations.

The NE has a crime perception issue. Let's be frank, it has a MAJOR crime perception issue. Notice I said "perception" and perceptions matter.
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/08/01/43 ... ty-of.html

Independence Plaza Park could almost be the backdrop for photos in a wedding album –– were it not for the hookers, drug pushers and occasional stray bullet.

How many developers will locate their new residential complex in an area people are working hard to *leave* today. And by no means is this area a den of horrible people.

The project can't sell BS to the people who could be voting to fund it.

You have a perception and opinion that I'm not likely to be able to change.

[flyingember]

I've been through the NE so I'm not ignorant of the area. I do real estate photography in all kinds of shady locations.

The NE has a crime perception issue. Let's be frank, it has a MAJOR crime perception issue. Notice I said "perception" and perceptions matter.
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/08/01/43 ... ty-of.html

Independence Plaza Park could almost be the backdrop for photos in a wedding album –– were it not for the hookers, drug pushers and occasional stray bullet.

How many developers will locate their new residential complex in an area people are working hard to *leave* today. And by no means is this area a den of horrible people.

The project can't sell BS to the people who could be voting to fund it.

You have a perception and opinion that I'm not likely to be able to change.

I have a perception that matches that of tens of thousands of people in the city. There's a reason that NKC HS is one of the most diverse schools in the region and it's 100% suburban. Find a way to change that perception.

[taxi]

I do real estate photography

No wonder you have so much time to post!

[flyingember]

I do real estate photography

No wonder you have so much time to post!

that's my side job. But I've seen some wonderful parts of town. Never wanted to see 38th and Parallel Parkway before but I learned more about that part of KCK.

I did learn with certainty that nasty run-down places don't just exist in urban areas. I knew that before, but the photos made it painfully obvious.

[grovester]

The politics of this will require a line in the NE or the east side sooner rather than later.

[DaveKCMO]

The politics of this will require a line in the NE or the east side sooner rather than later.

+1

[flyingember]

The politics of this will require a line in the NE or the east side sooner rather than later.

not so much. it's simple population math.

In 2010 one district left south of the river and a second one moved to cover part of the northland. and that's not stopping

Second Creek is expected to add 70,000 residents. Even if downtown adds 20K residents during the same period, that's still a over half a council district moving north and that's just Second Creek. Shoal Creek is only halfway developed as well and it hit 30K already.

the politics are on their way towards being in flux. 2020 is going to majorly upset the balance of power in KC.

I expect by 2030 that the eastside will be one district from the river to Bannister to Main.

The time to change perceptions is now, because it's not going to get easier to sell the train on an area so many people choose to move from and won't move to unless it's their only option.

[chingon]

The politics of this will require a line in the NE or the east side sooner rather than later.

+1

-2

Realtalk: there is really nowhere east of Troost itself where a streetcar line has a chance of sparking eco-devo, except in Northeast. Unfortunately, the political factions that need to be appeased on the Eastside don't really view Northeast as part of the Eastside. Add to that the resistance I think you'll get from some more vocal and more politically engaged neighborhoods in Northeast, I think it fails.

Hopefully, I'm wrong on all counts.

[DaveKCMO]

you don't have to go very far east to prove the streetcar's transformative powers in the northeast. i'd be perfectly content with phase 2 on the avenue stopping as close to downtown as prospect (~1.8 mi from 3rd & grand). all of the neighborhoods along that stretch have been very supportive (columbus park, paseo west, PH).

[flyingember]

there was an interesting comment made somewhere (I believe Dave's twitter) from a live commentary from some meeting about how district 3 better not be bypassed by the streetcar.

it's not like the 3rd district was the lone No vote for the construction contract...

and if the northland doesn't get a reason to vote yes (it's happened before) you need the eastside united.

[pash]

.

[aknowledgeableperson]

FWIW, besides the only real development that would probably occur besides Troost on the east side would be N/S on Prospect. Doubt that one would run another line going N/S so that leaves a line going E/W to tie in the Eastside to the main line.

Maybe in another generation or two it might be different but for now ...