KC urban core population density.

[flyingember]

And, while I understand that you have to graduate high school to go to college or a trade school, talking about a high school diploma as if it's meaningful is a little silly. On its own in the labor market it's barely relevant anymore. We should be factoring in post-secondary (2 year, 4 year, trade school, whatever) education when we talk about the success rate of a school district.

it sounds silly until you look at the facts

this graph is the best
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/ ... el-of.html

during the recession
hs degree vs not was a 5% difference
college degree vs hs degree was a 6% difference. Given how unemployment goes up and down and is voodoo as much as science I'd say those are effectively the same difference

before the recession
hs degree vs not was a 2-2.5% difference
college degree vs hs degree was a 2.5-3% difference.

so a high school degree results in the same improvement in job prospects as a college degree does

[chaglang]

Look at lifetime earnings.

Edit: Hang on. The difference between a hs degree and no hs degree is not 5%. No hs degree had a 16% unemployment rate, and a hs degree was 11%. That’s a 37% difference.

Bachelors and above had a 5%. That’s a 104% difference relative to no degree.

Edit 2: If the national unemployment rate is 8%, and those with a college degree are 3 points better (46% difference) and those with only a HS degree are 3 points worse (31% difference), that's extremely significant. They are not even close to the same. Those are very, very different economic situations.

[chingon]

Funkhouser's offspring might have attended public schools but not while he was mayor.

From the campaign:

Mark and his family live in Brookside in a turn-of-the-century house. Their children received most of their schooling in the Kansas City, Missouri public schools. Tara is a Junior at the University of Pittsburgh and is a French, Italian and Pre-Holistic-Medicine major. Andrew is a senior at Lincoln College Preparatory Academy.

Might have graduated by the time Funkhouser took office. But, yes, his kids went to KCMO schools.

PS - lol @ "pre-holistic medicine".

[chaglang]

Instead of being 100% white, formally lilly white suburbs are they now just 80% white.

Just curious, in your opinion what is the opposite of "Lilly white?" "Ghetto black?"

There are actually black lilies, so I would say it's "Black Lily Black".

[flyingember]

Look at lifetime earnings.

Edit: Hang on. The difference between a hs degree and no hs degree is not 5%. No hs degree had a 16% unemployment rate, and a hs degree was 11%. That’s a 37% difference.

Bachelors and above had a 5%. That’s a 104% difference relative to no degree.

Edit 2: If the national unemployment rate is 8%, and those with a college degree are 3 points better (46% difference) and those with only a HS degree are 3 points worse (31% difference), that's extremely significant. They are not even close to the same. Those are very, very different economic situations.

the claim was a high school degree was worthless for a job purpose and this shows otherwise. A hs degree has a marked improvement in employment opportunities over not having one the same way a college degree does. A smaller percentage of the only a hs population is unemployed compared to the population of people without a hs degree and its stayed that way for years.

Percentage differences can't be done without adjusting for population size. My number is the absolute chance one hypothetical person out of 100 in each group would have a job and with each jump in education the odds increased by the same amount. That shows an equal result in terms of effort put into a hs degree and a college degree.

In the real world, it's not that simple but i was just looking at simple odds of a hypothetical person.

So simply improving the hs graduation rate of an area has marked economic results on a community.
College is not the only giver of opportunity even though it remains another excellent step to take

[chaglang]

Push.

So back to parental involvement: what do you see as driving this? There have to be some things that are generally true of parents who get involved.

[Zorobabel]

Culture seems to play a big part, in my opinion. If you look at a country like Japan, where you can take out the racial component, it is often times the poorest, most agrarian regions whose students perform the best on their national exams.

[pstokely]

Funkhouser's offspring might have attended public schools but not while he was mayor.

From the campaign:

Mark and his family live in Brookside in a turn-of-the-century house. Their children received most of their schooling in the Kansas City, Missouri public schools. Tara is a Junior at the University of Pittsburgh and is a French, Italian and Pre-Holistic-Medicine major. Andrew is a senior at Lincoln College Preparatory Academy.

Might have graduated by the time Funkhouser took office. But, yes, his kids went to KCMO schools.

PS - lol @ "pre-holistic medicine".

"average" kids can't get into Lincoln Prep

[pstokely]

Culture seems to play a big part, in my opinion. If you look at a country like Japan, where you can take out the racial component, it is often times the poorest, most agrarian regions whose students perform the best on their national exams.

what about Africa or Europe or South America?

[pstokely]

Culture seems to play a big part, in my opinion. If you look at a country like Japan, where you can take out the racial component, it is often times the poorest, most agrarian regions whose students perform the best on their national exams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPsV1ReAIU

[chingon]

"average" kids can't get into Lincoln Prep

I guess I'm not getting your point. Somebody asked if any mayor in recent history had kids that went to KCMSD.

[Zorobabel]

Culture seems to play a big part, in my opinion. If you look at a country like Japan, where you can take out the racial component, it is often times the poorest, most agrarian regions whose students perform the best on their national exams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPsV1ReAIU

I don't quite see the connection to my post. I wasn't saying Asians excel academically. I said that culture, such as a strong work ethic that may prevail in a certain region, will influence students to perform well.

I based that statement on the following data:
http://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/12090 -- Student achievement on national exams
http://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/10714 -- Income by prefecture

On the main islands (that is, excluding Hokkaido and Okinawa), there is no correlation between income and student achievement -- well, actually there is. Lower income regions generally perform better.

I've never been to South America, Africa, or most of Europe, so I can't speak to what kind of culture prevails in those places in regards to work ethic and education.

There are many OECD countries that spend significantly less per pupil on education than the US but blow us out of the water in student achievement. And there are many OECD countries with large minority populations that outperform us as well, such as Singapore (26% minority population), Canada (20%), the Netherlands (20%), Switzerland (22% foreign-born), Australia (about 20% non-white), etc.

It definitely does seem to largely come down to parental involvement, and I don't know how that be changed, personally.

[flyingember]

Culture seems to play a big part, in my opinion. If you look at a country like Japan, where you can take out the racial component, it is often times the poorest, most agrarian regions whose students perform the best on their national exams.

and this isn't culture as in race or religion since education transcends those. it's not even necessarily based on economic starting point.

it's entirely the culture of caring about education.

it's not a completely uncommon occurrence where the first generation immigrant family works two jobs doing manual labor and their kid graduates from high school and becomes management at a retail store or hotel and then their kid graduates from college. that through caring about education they gave themselves opportunities down the line. I live next door to an individual who seems to be doing this, he works a ton of side jobs to have his kid in a good school.

[flyingember]

and I don't know how that be changed, personally.

interestingly it's a complex solution to actually do it but really simple in it's fundamentals.

remove the kids from the parents. think boarding schools. not necessarily a military school style.

if the parent won't care and the kid won't care, remove the kid from the environment.

and I'm talking at 6th grade. about the time kids learn independence and can handle being away but not so late they can't come back and learn what they need to